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Episode #123 Risk Mitigation, Adoption, Expansion: The Triad of Customer Success ft. Colin Murphy (BMC Software)
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Manali Bhat
- January 15, 2025
#updateai #customersuccess #saas #business
Colin Murphy, SVP & Chief Customer Officer at BMC Software joins Josh Schachter, Co-Founder & CEO at UpdateAI to share insights from his extensive experience in customer success management. Colin & Josh delve into BMC’s customer-centric approach to enhance risk mitigation, adoption, and expansion within the company. As we kick off 2025, Colin also reveals the vision for the year ahead, highlighting innovative approaches in leveraging AI technology to improve BMC’s customer interactions.
Timestamps
0:00 – Preview
1:00 – Meet Colin Murphy and overview of BMC Software
6:30 – Customer Success at BMC Software
11:35 – Core objectives of CS
13:13 – BMC’s Growth Priorities
15:01 – Engagement framework, tracking & adoption reviews
21:30 – Vision and Objectives for 2025
24:40 – Use of AI in CS and Tech Support
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Colin Murphy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinmurphy-techoperatingexecutive/
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Jon Johnson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonwilliamjohnson/
Kristi Faltorusso: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristiserrano/
Josh Schachter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/
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Unchurned is presented by UpdateAI
About UpdateAI
At UpdateAI our mission is to empower CS teams to build great customer relationships. We work with early & growth-stage B2B SaaS companies to help them scale CS outcomes. Everything we do is devoted to removing the overwhelm of back-to-back customer meetings so that CSMs can focus on the bigger picture: building relationships.
Josh Schachter:
Unchurned is presented by UpdateAI.
Colin Murphy:
There there are from a customer success management standpoint, there are, I I would say, 3 core objectives that you could focus on, risk, risk mitigation, adoption maturity, and expansion. Question is, where do you wanna focus first? Right? Ideally, you’re able to do all 3 of those things at the same time, but
Josh Schachter:
Right.
Colin Murphy:
Sometimes you’re not. Right? So the the question is of those 3 sort of motions or priorities, where do you focus? And then for for us, it was we have 3 or 4 major business lines.
Josh Schachter:
So where did you focus? Or you’re you’re about to tell me.
Colin Murphy:
When we first started when we first started, it was around risk mitigation.
Josh Schachter:
Okay.
Colin Murphy:
And and then we also made a choice around, here are the 4 businesses. We can only invest right now to be able to really, really help influence GRR and a subset of the business. Where should we go? And so we focused in on the subset of the business. And that’s where really our first 24 months, 24 to 30 months was really just focused on.
Josh Schachter:
Hey, everybody, and welcome to this latest episode of Unchurned. I’m Josh Schachter, host and CEO of UpdateAI. And I’m here today with Colin Murphy. Colin is the chief customer officer at BMC Software, a little company, small company, based in, you guys are based in New England, Boston?
Colin Murphy:
We’re technically, we’re based in Houston, Texas. Houston, Texas and Santa Clara, California.
Josh Schachter:
Ah, okay. Alright. Colin, great to meet well, we’ve met. Great to have you on the show. I actually had Eduardo, Camacha on the show a couple years ago Yeah. Who you used to report to, and now you’re you’re filling her role. And, so it’s great to have you here.
Colin Murphy:
Well, thanks for having me. Very, I’m I’ve I’ve watched your I’ve watched slash listened to this show in the past. I always saw it on LinkedIn, and I remember I clicked on it, and I I listened to it. I don’t know if it was Eduardo’s call or if it was a different one, but I’ve listened to a few of them over time.
Josh Schachter:
Well, thanks for not holding it against me. So to tell everybody, you know, BMC, you guys do a lot of things, big kinda like a blue chip company, in the tech world. So to tell everybody in case they’re not familiar with BMC, what what it is that you do?
Colin Murphy:
Sure. Yeah. BMC software has been around since the early eighties. So we’re a little over 40 years old, which is a a really strong heritage in enterprise software. I like to call it, it’s it’s more like, I would say, data center software. We have a few different a
Colin Murphy:
few different product lines, major product lines. But fundamentally, we sell to the CIO and and and the CIO of of of any kind of industry vertical. So we have retail customers. We have we have, government customers. We have telecommunications and tech customers. We have financial and insurance customers. We have all kinds of different industry verticals. And the major kinds of software that we sell, is really around service management, so employee service management, IT service management, and then, IT operations management, so software that’s sold to a CIO and their team so that they can better manage their infrastructure and their applications and their data.
Colin Murphy:
And then we have, also automation software that helps, again, ensure that all of an organization’s private clouds, public clouds, applications are all communicating with each other as efficiently and as effectively as possible.
Josh Schachter:
Awesome. So so now in this role that you’ve had for a little while. Yeah. About a year. You’re born in directly to the CEO. You under your remit, you’ve got customer success. You’ve got technical support and CX at product education, about 1400 people across 35 countries.
Colin Murphy:
Yes.
Josh Schachter:
I’m feeling overwhelmed just just spitting that out. What am I missing?
Colin Murphy:
No. That’s that’s right. And and the company is is about 65, 66, 67100 or so total employees. So if you think of that in the context of of of the CS organization, it’s a pretty significant portion of the overall, you know, company. So, yeah, you said it. Services, customer success management, support, customer experience, education, the entire spectrum of what you call kind of post sales type of type of functions.
Josh Schachter:
Okay. Cool. So I I wanna get back to that. I wanna get back to, like, a day in the life of somebody that has 1400 reports because, again, that just kind of boggles my mind. And I, obviously, there’s a lot of people that listen to this program that are are aspiring to reach the levels of of that type of, I’ll call it authority and and ownership and influence. So you guys have have, you know, have been a very profitable company through the years, like you said, around 40 years. So really stable blue chip type of tech company, not necessarily known for your growth. I mean, you’re not a, you know, a y c combinator startup True.
Josh Schachter:
As it were. But that is, I believe, a a priority of yours becoming more and more of a priority. Am I right?
Colin Murphy:
It is. It is. It is. It’s a fair statement. Yeah. But BMC is has, I think there are there are a lot of really good things about the business, and anybody who looks externally in outside in and looks at the business, there’s a lot to really like about it. Like you said, it’s it it it was a it was a public it was a private company, then it was a public company, now it’s a private company. It’s been owned by some of the really, really big, private equity firms that many of your listeners are are are familiar with.
Colin Murphy:
And the, the reason why we’ve been so successful is is we do have it’s a very profitable business. But we do have cloud and on premise business, but it’s very profitable. I think historically that BMC has had bouts of time when there’s been growth. It’s always been profitable, but the growth is is you know, in periods of time in our history, we’ve had, you know, maybe a a couple steps forward and then a couple steps back, couple more steps forward and then a step back. I think if you look at the last several years, last 5 years, we’ve we’ve really turned the page and and moved into not just a profitable company, but a company that’s growing in a in a meaningful number now. So yeah.
Josh Schachter:
Well, Well, I mean, if you’re if you’re highly profitable, then there’s not necessarily as much pressure to to grow. You know, you’re in a good situation to start out with. So as you think about, that overall OKR true north of of growth becoming, more prominent over the past couple of years, What are some of the ways that you in your role, maybe we have to break this down because you do have, you know, remit over different several different channels. But, like, how are you let’s talk about customer success. How are you approaching that challenge from from that group?
Colin Murphy:
Well, I think 5 years ago, we didn’t have BMC did not have a customer success management function in name. And so over the last 5 years, we built we’ve we’ve assembled it from pockets of people that were doing what I would call CSM type of activities, and then we’ve added to those to to that team. And and and now we have a global function and a global program. And and, honestly, a lot of the focus initially was around the GRR portion of the equation. So we’re looking at GRR and NRR and just overall growth. We were we had a we had a real challenge with certain elements, certain parts of our business, where we had some GRR leakage, too much GRR leakage. So a lot of my a lot of the value that we’ve created from a customer success management standpoint, at least initially, was very much focused on risk identification, risk man risk management, risk mitigation, and just being much more deliberate about about gross retention and about taking care of customers. And I think we’ve we sort of evolved to more not just risk mitigation, but also focusing on all things related to adoption and adoption maturity and then also setting the table for expansion.
Colin Murphy:
So we’ve we’ve kinda started with a real focus on stemming the stem stemming the, the leaky bucket, and we’ve moved into something that’s been much more about about expansion versus just just, risk risk mitigation. So that’s on the CSM side.
Josh Schachter:
Well, so so as you say that, I’m actually pulling up LinkedIn to look at your profile here because I believe you said it’s been 5 year 5 years ago you didn’t have a CS team.
Colin Murphy:
Right.
Josh Schachter:
And then okay. Wait for it. It’s loading here. I think if I look at your profile, you’ve been at BMC for about a little over 5 years. Is that right?
Colin Murphy:
Correct.
Josh Schachter:
Okay. So so this is the Colin Murphy show, the CS group at BMC.
Colin Murphy:
Well, I would say this. What was pretty cool about this, and this isn’t always the case, but I’ll I’ll I’ll let let you know. Is when the current when KKR bought us, one of the one of the one of the value kind of the one of the value stores or value drivers, that they were really interested in was how do we mitigate risk, and how do we improve our renewal rates, and how do we how do we improve gross retention? So KKR, bought us 6 years ago. Right? So I came in 5 years ago, and and it I was tasked already with, hey. This is something that’s been identified as something that’s really important. Let’s help roll it out across the org.
Josh Schachter:
Because you you came in. You were the VP. I have it now. You were VP chief of staff to the CEO and head of corporate initiatives. Yes. So so so KKR placed you there or somebody placed you there to say, hey. We’ve got these growth initiatives. Now we’re part of, of KKR, and and this must have been the very top of a punch list.
Josh Schachter:
Right?
Colin Murphy:
It was. It was one which was really cool. I mean, it was already a board level initiative. I was brought in because I had worked in in the past with the CEO, Ayman. I had a relationship with him, and he wanted me to come in and and help him help him structure the organization. So that was the chief of staff piece. But he also said, oh, and by the way, there’s this board level initiative, which is we were calling it customer value realization at the time, but really what it is is this customer success management. Yep.
Colin Murphy:
And so, a a lot of my focus in in in the in the initial years was was just rolling out the program and and getting people across BMC to understand it. And and look, I think we’ve made a really big big impact. We’re not the only ones that are are driving that impact. I would say that we’re part of a of a pretty good story around around what we’re doing around risk mitigation and and all the things that we’re focused on and being deliberate operationally. But the product has gotten better. The sales team is is is linked in very closely with closely with us. Yeah. That includes all elements of the sales team.
Colin Murphy:
So it’s it’s I think we’ve been driving it for sure, and we’ve been championing it championing it quite a bit. But, I think the overall ecosystem has improved quite a bit. I think our customers have benefited from from it as well. When when
Josh Schachter:
you say championing championing it, it’s it’s customer centricity.
Colin Murphy:
Customer centricity, which sounds Yep. In a, you know, motherhood and apple pie, but it it it it was it was something that it was something that needed more attention here for sure.
Josh Schachter:
Hey, everybody. It’s Josh. I’m taking a quick break from the podcast to tell you a bit about UpdateAI. I started UpdateAI to solve 2 major challenges for CS teams. The first is that we save CSMs 4 to 5 hours per week with our productivity through AI. Secondly, we give leaders a window into all the conversations across each account and the entire portfolio. So we help knowledge transfer, we help increase the coverage model of your CS teams, and we help you detect emerging patterns and what your customers are telling your CSMs across all the risks, product feedback, advocacy moments, and expansion opportunities. So come check us out at www.updateai.
Josh Schachter:
It’s completely free to sign up and trial. What’s your, I don’t know, what’s your your your 3 step, 5 step, 10 step recipe playbook from from your experience with BC BMC of of getting this going?
Colin Murphy:
Yeah. I think, there is you you have to you have to make sure, 1st and foremost, that you’re you’re identifying and or you’re defining what it is the objective of the organization is. So at that time, it was just the customer success management team. So you have to lay out, here are all the things that we could focus on, both functionally and and from a, hey, in in this geo or in this particular product line or whatever. But here are all the things that we can focus on, but here we’re gonna focus on here instead because this is where the biggest challenge is. Does everyone agree with that with those objectives? Okay. Fine. So you check that box.
Colin Murphy:
You get everyone to understand. Here are all the things that you could do, but, really, this is what you wanna spend your your your time on. Right? So that’s the first You
Josh Schachter:
mean you mean you mean we could we could we could think about top line growth, but let’s spend our time thinking a bit more deeply about customer intent and and
Colin Murphy:
What I’m actually saying is, in the context of a larger company like BMC that’s spread out all over the place and has multiple business lines, and multiple multiple functions just like any other software company. There are from a customer success management standpoint, there are, I I would say, 3 core objectives that you could focus on. Risk, risk mitigation, adoption maturity, and expansion. Mhmm. Question is, where do you wanna focus first? Right? Ideally, you’re able to do all 3 of those things at the same time, but Right. Sometimes you’re not. Right? So the the question is of those 3 sort of motions or priorities, where do you focus? And then for for us, it was we have 3 or 4 major business lines.
Josh Schachter:
So where did you focus? Or you’re sorry. You’re about to tell me.
Colin Murphy:
When we first started when we first started, it was around risk mitigation.
Josh Schachter:
Okay.
Colin Murphy:
And and then we also made a choice around, here are the 4 businesses. We can only invest right now to be able to really, really help, influence GRR and a subset of the business. Where should we go? And so we focused in on the subset of the business. And that’s where really our first 24 months, 24 to 30 months was really just focused on very much around risk and a little bit of adoption. And on a particular, couple of product lines or business lines, which, you know, where this is significant portion of our of our overall business, but still
Josh Schachter:
Sure.
Colin Murphy:
And then we evolved over time. But I think the the you said 10 step or 5 step. 1 of the the first couple steps are around getting everyone to understand what it is you’re trying to do Yeah. Where it is you’re focusing. And then you need to define, you know, what the program is. From a CSM perspective, you need to define what that motion is gonna look like, what what what what the team is gonna do, what the team isn’t going to do, and making sure that that’s clear. And then you need to make sure that everyone in the organization understands what those things are, and you need to measure and track them. And and you need to be flexible each year on, you know, what the the what the priorities are as far as, you know, tracking the things that you think are the right things to do because it’s gonna lead to the the, to the financial results that you’re trying to get as a company.
Colin Murphy:
Does that make sense?
Josh Schachter:
Yeah. It totally makes sense. I mean, I’ve I it’s so simple, but I’ve actually never heard it articulated as the three things basically that CS is, which is risk mitigation, you know, adoption and and expansion and renewal. Right? I mean, it makes sense. Yeah.
Colin Murphy:
So, I
Josh Schachter:
mean, what were do you recall what were the things that you were tracking in that first phase of risk mitigation that moved the needle?
Colin Murphy:
Yeah. Yeah. I would say, customer engagement, you know, at at a high level is like, okay. So here are the 100 or 200 accounts that we wanted or a 150 accounts that we wanted to focus on. Okay? And here are the 5 things that we expected that we wanted to do with those with those kinds of accounts. And it was very much what are we doing with the accounts? Are we engaging with them? Do we have a success plan? Are we doing adoption reviews? Are we identifying and communicating risks within the customer success organization and across the ecosystem. You know, we put in place some some some regional sort of risk mitigation fabrics as well, processes as well throughout that period of time. So it was it was a lot on engagement because we didn’t have any other data.
Colin Murphy:
Right? So, hopefully, what I wanted to be able to do and we are have been able to do is you wanna be able to link, customer success management, engagement and link that to improvements in improvements in ultimately, improvements in ARR and ARR growth, retention Sure. ARR growth. And so the only way for us to do that was for us to say, you know, be very specific about what the engagement framework was and what the expectation was for this customer success managers, track it using a tool like Gainsight Mhmm. So that we could, over time, we could look at, and we have, we looked at data now that we could say, okay. Over the last 24 20 24 months, we have all this activity data. Now let’s link the activity data to what’s actually happened with the accounts that are getting those activities versus what the accounts, what’s happening with the accounts that aren’t getting those activities.
Josh Schachter:
So so in the spectrum of customer success, you’ve got from no touch to high touch. Right? And and you’re base and there’s all these activities in between, whether it’s emails or phone calls or meetings or in person or whatever. And and you’re now able to using Gainsight, I’m sure, with some of your own reporting people focusing on this, you’re able to correlate the Correct. The value of the activity to renewal and expansion of the people.
Colin Murphy:
We we haven’t been able to correlate the value of the specific activity, but we’ve said these five activities are the kinds of activities that we think are will help clear the way for customers to adopt the product. And if customers adopt the product, we feel like they’re gonna be in a better position to get outcomes and
Josh Schachter:
Which makes sense.
Colin Murphy:
All those things. And so we can say, where do we wanna be? Okay. These customers that have gotten at least 20 engagements or 20 of these deliverables or activities over the last, you know, over the last 24 months, in general, are growing at x at x percent versus the customers that aren’t getting better.
Josh Schachter:
Well, I mean, I you can maybe guess my next question here. I’ll put you on the spot. Like, what are the what’s that bucket of activities that’s moving the needle?
Colin Murphy:
Oh, the bucket of activities are it’s really kind of big honestly, kind of basic stuff. It’s setting a success plan. Right? It is, doing adoption assessments or adoption reviews. It’s doing executive touch points. And sometimes you can do these at the same time. And there’s sometimes there’s a technical element of where we have health checks that we need to do because we have very technical they’re very technical products. So we do technical health checks. And then we have something else that’s that we measure as well that are more like advocacy type of activities, where if a customer gives us, they either do something that’s an internal advocacy activity or something that’s an external advocacy activity.
Colin Murphy:
We we also count that as as an engagement and that that engagement in general is a positive thing.
Josh Schachter:
I’ll show some of my colors here. I never have I haven’t heard of, adoption review.
Colin Murphy:
I, you
Josh Schachter:
know, I I no. I fake it. I fake I fake being a thought leader in CS, and sometimes these things are exposed. So what’s in the it sounds straightforward, but what is an adoption review?
Colin Murphy:
Well, adoption review is this. So, we have a, we sell software, that’s that’s for what we’ll call them for service management. Service management is let’s say you’re you’re a you’re a new you’re the the software the the product we have is called historically, it’s called Remedy. It competes with, you know, companies like ServiceNow and Freshdesk and Atlassian. But really, what it is is is is a tool that allows the IT organization to address incidents, in a systematic way. But also, it’s it’s a way for, HR or HR departments to be able to process employee requests. Right? So you have a new joiner. Right? So you use Sure.
Colin Murphy:
You see service management software, and the service management software helps automate bringing on a a new employee or, you know, when an when an employee leaves, all those kinds of things. So there are a lot of different modules that are associated with that service management capability, that product. And so what we do is we say, okay. There is basically a score of from 1 to 5 or 0 to 5, 0 being you’re not using anything, to 5 being you’re you’re using pretty much all the modules and all the most important highest value newest capabilities. And each of these capabilities and things are linked to basic outcomes. Right? Sure. You know, because for any kind of enterprise software, customers are fundamentally buying it to do, you know, one of 5 or 6 things. Reduce risk, drive costs down, make their employees more productive, help, you know, identify new revenue streams, things like that.
Colin Murphy:
The regulatory compliance.
Josh Schachter:
I don’t I think that’s it. I think I think you just spelled out the entire spectrum of why people buy software.
Colin Murphy:
Yeah. Those are the 5 or 6 things. So what we do is then we say, okay. Based on how the customer is using, the various modules, we can we can kinda map them on a on a on a spectrum of 0 to 5. And and then we can have conversations and say, hey. Look. You know, here’s where you’re at in these areas, but, you know, you also own the rest of these, and you’re not really using these like other customers using them. Why don’t you help us prioritize this as part of a success plan? And sometimes they’ll be use BMC services to help.
Colin Murphy:
Sometimes they’ll use our partners. Sometimes they’ll do it themselves. But but it’s kind of an adoption conversation.
Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Yeah. No. That makes sense. It makes sense. Okay. I wanna move the needle now to the next the last part of our conversation, which is, you had mentioned, kinda creating the vision and the objective for the organization. We’re now in the start of January in 2025.
Josh Schachter:
You must have objective and a vision for this year. I’d like to know what that is. And then talking about how do you cascade that through an organization of 1400 people across 35 countries.
Colin Murphy:
Yeah. That’s a good that’s a good one. So we have there’s a lot of different frameworks. I I won’t go into the details of the frameworks, but, there’s a lot of different frameworks that you could use to articulate where you’re trying to go as an organization, as a company, or a function. And then what the priorities are from an execution standpoint, and then what the metrics are that help us inform whether we’re doing those execution priorities. But we use something like that, and we we we
Josh Schachter:
Like an OKR type of system.
Colin Murphy:
Yes. We Something. It’s something our CEO has brought in, from his his previous experience is something called a VSEM, which is vision, strategy, execution, metrics. And so we do a 3 year vSAN that’s a rolling 3 year vSAN that we reassess each year. And so what we do each year is we we we reassess, we reassess the metrics, don’t really change much. Sometimes you’ll focus on certain metrics if you’re really trying to focus on certain run the business initiatives versus some change the business initiatives. But, we have that construct, and each year, we refresh it. And as part of that, we we highlight I said run and change the business.
Colin Murphy:
We highlight areas of business that we that we already that they’re already part of our function, and there’s something that we’re already doing. We just wanna focus on it because it’s something that’s gonna make us better and make the customer better. And then there’s change the business, things that we don’t do for business as usual, but we we we need to change in order for us to continue to evolve as a as a as a function as a company. And so once we identify those, call it 3 to 5, change to business priority initiatives, we align on what the what the metrics are, top 10 operating metrics and the financial metrics for the organization, and we cascade that out each year. And then we report on it on a regular basis in our town halls where we say, okay. Here are our initiatives. Here’s the status on a couple of the initiatives. Oh, and by the way, here’s how we’re doing against our report card, you know, from a from a from a run the business, metrics and target standpoint.
Colin Murphy:
And my philosophy there is that that scorecard, it needs to be it needs to be realistically aggressive. You you if it’s all green, then you’re setting the wrong targets
Josh Schachter:
Mhmm.
Colin Murphy:
Setting the wrong expectation for the for the organization. It shouldn’t be all red. It should have a lot of green, some yellow, and maybe some red. Right? And that’s just Yep. That’s just that’s just life in the big city. But you you you definitely communicate that on a on a quarterly basis. And then what I’ve been doing, at least the last 2 years, because it was feedback I got from the organization, was that each month, I do some sort of communication, that’s, you know, organization wide. Sometimes it’s a video.
Colin Murphy:
Sometimes it’s me talking with some of my leaders, talking about a specific element. Sometimes it’s just a written communication, and we do, like, a regular organizational communication on on things in between the town halls, and that’s the best way for us to do that.
Josh Schachter:
Cool. Exciting stuff. Yeah. I wish you guys you know what? Actually, I wanna ask you one question. I would be remiss not to ask you a final question. Yeah. Self self serving in some way. What are you guys doing in the world of AI these days? Like, where are you in that, big bubble?
Colin Murphy:
It’s a really, really good question. So, I’m very big into using 2 tools, and so we’re very we we use Gainsight for CSM. We just actually purchased Certinia, for professional services. We use Service Cloud. But then we’re also supplementing those those core systems of record, so to speak, with with, AI tools on top. Mhmm. On the support side, we’re using, you know, some some tools to help with, identifying, customer sentiment issues be before they become escalations.
Josh Schachter:
So Mhmm.
Colin Murphy:
So we’re using that. In support, we’re definitely leaning in on on using AI and some extra tools. We’re using
Josh Schachter:
I mean, support is such a slam dunk. Right? It’s such a such a low hanging fruit.
Colin Murphy:
Using some of our own tools actually because we’re using some of our own tools around monitoring to identify outages before they become outages for our for our SaaS customers, so we’ve done that. And then we’ve also worked on some tools that are are about cleaning up communication. So having support analysts use these things to make sure that we’re communicating clearly back to customers, which is a problem for us. Sure. And so support is where we started. Now we’re moving into customer success management and services. So, we’re using there’s a couple of other AI kind of add ons. We’re using it just because it’s top of my mind because I just saw it today.
Colin Murphy:
It’s something called Yep. Something called Matic Yep. To help us with, freeing up time for CSMs.
Josh Schachter:
Matic is for, for presentations, I believe. Right? For compiling all the different data into from sources?
Colin Murphy:
Correct. So we’ve we’ve we’ve started to look we started to pile it there. We’re like we we we’re moving from here. On voice of the customer stuff, we’re using something called Echos on top of Qualtrics for us to, break down NPS in interesting ways, which I think is it’s it’s not generative AI. It’s more traditional AI, which I think is Sure. Ex analytics and AI. So, the next frontier for us is really professional services and CSM. We’ve very much focused in support.
Colin Murphy:
I think we’ve gotten some really good value out of it now at CSM and and services. And and yeah. I mean, we’re we we we definitely I feel like we’re I don’t know. I feel I feel like we’re on the right side of the curve of actually using AI generative and traditional, to actually make things better for customers, which is cool.
Josh Schachter:
That’s awesome. For a company your size, you’re on the right side of the curve.
Colin Murphy:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Thanks for that.
Josh Schachter:
Colin, thank you so much. It’s always great, hanging out. Great seeing you. And, really appreciate your time. Wishing you the very best in 2025 for continued success.
Colin Murphy:
Thank you, Josh. I appreciate the time, and, we need to, meet in person here in the city since we’re pretty close to each other. So let’s make that a priority in the first 6 months. Okay?
Josh Schachter:
I agree.