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Tatiana Ferreira :
I think the part that I get the most concerned about is the client confusion. Right? I never want the client to feel like they’re having a bad experience. So this question of, oh, do I reach out to team member a or team member b? And I think it takes time.

Josh Schachter:
I just cc both. I cc everybody. And who cares about the time?

Tatiana Ferreira :
Someone will get back to me. Exactly.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Yeah. Like, is that really a win that the

Josh Schachter:
customer to navigate their way to the right person and then, like, they

Kristi Faltorusso:
finally figured out they finally got to the person who can

Josh Schachter:
answer their question, and that’s like a a a that’s like a hallmark moment for you. I feel like that’s like a a a churn indicator.

Jon Johnson:
Okay. Well, then the the show me a SaaS company that hasn’t gone through massive change over the last 3 to 6 months where you have to have that process.

Kristi Faltorusso:
John, why are you fighting with Josh?

Josh Schachter:
Hey, everybody, and happy post Thanksgiving week. I’m Josh Schachter, your cohost with the most, and I’m here today again with John Johnson and Christy Falter Russo, our other cohosts of Unchurned. We’re very excited. Are we? Yeah. We’re always very excited, John.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Wouldn’t be excited with that because this is the first time that I was just gonna say I was just saying. We haven’t recorded all 3 of us in a while.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Well, that’s not why I’m so excited. I’m excited because I have

Kristi Faltorusso:
a guest.

Jon Johnson:
Oh, I’d I’d say

Kristi Faltorusso:
It’s never about us.

Jon Johnson:
It’s never about us. You’re gonna introduce her, and she’s just gonna sit, say quietly as well.

Josh Schachter:
You guys. Tatiana Ferrera. Yes. Tatiana is the chief customer officer of Launchmetrics. He’s only been at Launchmetrics for just a short stint.

Jon Johnson:
9 years.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. A lowly 9 9 years at the company. 10 years is when they give her the Rolex is what I

Kristi Faltorusso:
They still do that? No.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Even longer than that if we go further back history in the company because Launchmetrics is part of part of our story. But so I stopped counting at 10 anyway, so don’t wanna age myself. But thank you. I’m super excited to be here, with you all. Also very excited. And Josh, I’m excited that you’re excited. Maybe John not so excited because it’s the first Monday after the long weekend.

Jon Johnson:
I know. It’s good. Well, at least all of all of our heat is working, Tatiana, unlike yours. So

Tatiana Ferrera:
I know. I know. Hopefully, they’ll they’ll be fixed for me soon. But, yes, very excited to be here. Thank you guys so much for having me.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Awesome. And and I’m excited to hear more about what you guys do because you’re you’re, you know, a leading firm in the brand performance space to understand the value of a brand, and this is particularly interesting to me today because as John and Christy know, my girlfriend maybe, maybe not soon to be fiance.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Oh. It’s

Jon Johnson:
totally up to her. Totally up to her.

Kristi Faltorusso:
It totally depends on what she says. Then I date 5050.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. I may or may not be getting messages from her every single day asking when. However, that being said, she runs events. She’s gonna absolutely annihilate me when when she comes back from Miami. She runs events at Cartier, and they are having their big, I don’t know, Art Basel, Miami, adjacent, Trinity 100 year anniversary blah blah blah museum event out there, and it’s all they spend so much money on brand, so much money on brand.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Yep.

Josh Schachter:
And this whole intro, by the way, was just a way for me to troll her. So when

Kristi Faltorusso:
she listens to this episode, just

Jon Johnson:
I was like, I understood, like, 3 of those words, Joe.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah.

Kristi Faltorusso:
I’m just curious, like, why I didn’t get the plus one invite from Jess.

Josh Schachter:
So, Jess, you’re listening to

Kristi Faltorusso:
me real sad. I’ll go meet her right now.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Jess, if you’re listening, what Chris really wants, we know is the discount.

Jon Johnson:
Yeah.

Kristi Faltorusso:
It doesn’t come without friendship

Jon Johnson:
And trust.

Kristi Faltorusso:
And trust. That’s true.

Josh Schachter:
So there’s a lot of money poured into brand for luxury and for other brands as well. And my question always, like, well, how do you how do you measure the return on that? I mean, it it it’s absurd kind of some of what what some of these companies pay, And we live in a SaaS world where it’s all about what’s your CAC and how do you value your demand gen and stuff like that. So tell us a little bit about what you guys are doing, and then I wanna go into the history of your company because, like you mentioned, 9 years plus you’ve been with the company because there’s been some evolution there, so to say.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Exactly. I mean, you’ve lined it up, teed it up really well for me.

Josh Schachter:
I always do.

Tatiana Ferrera:
In speaking about the brand, usually, I tell people, oh, Launchmetrics. Yeah. We like help, fashion, beauty, lifestyle brands with data and software to help them with their brand performance. And they’re like, they’re what? Like, it doesn’t really make sense. But especially when you use an example like Cartier, I feel like that explains it so easily, right, in the sense the brand, that reason why, intrinsic reason why consumers want to buy from one brand versus another. And exactly, it’s super difficult to value what that is, to be efficient in it. And this industry, fashion and beauty, lifestyle, if you wanna throw that in there, it changes so fast as well. And I think especially post COVID, it’s just keeps changing.

Tatiana Ferrera:
There’s more demand from brands and all especially within marketing and PR, new markets to go into, new places to measure. They kind of have to be everywhere. Right? Meet consumers where they are. So that’s what we do, basically. We help brands with with their brand performance and not not just the measurement of it. That’s definitely one piece of it, but also building brand performance. So when you think of building brand performance, there are a lot of different operational activities that can go into that. And for us, we help brands do that through our software.

Tatiana Ferrera:
So we have operational tools that help brands do that. So whether it’s tracking where a sample is going from a fashion brand to an influencer or a celebrity walking down the red carpet or to managing an event. So much like this, Miami Art Basel event, you know, sending out invitations, doing check-in, everything that makes them more efficient so that they can work smarter, not harder, just like technology is supposed to help us all do. And then on the other side of that, measure the performance. Right? So, okay, I did all these activities. I did all these campaigns, but what what worked and what didn’t work? And back back not so long ago, really, the only kind of measurement or data points brands had were things like reach, engagement, circulation, if you start talking about, like, print magazines and going further back. Whereas we have a dollar amount that we give to brands to measure that. So they measure themselves and then moreover, they can measure their competitors to understand, okay, how are we performing, but also what are our competitors doing to be able to pivot, iterate on that strategy quarter after quarter, year after year.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Tatiana, I have a quick question. This and I could be so off base. It’s giving me, like, public relations vibes. Is is it similar? Is it not? Like, are these 2 completely different worlds? I just feel like a lot of what you’re talking about here aligns to what I know about public relations.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yep. You nailed it. So that is our our core buyer, if you will. Our users are all within PR marketing communications, to measure and activate their brand performance. Exactly right.

Josh Schachter:
So I wanna talk about the the history of the company, and a lot of that is your history with the company. They’ve kind of gone hand in hand. Tell our listeners about and I’m not gonna get it right, so I’m not gonna try to to retell it.

Kristi Faltorusso:
But, like, tell us about the history of all

Josh Schachter:
the m and a and stuff because I wanna get us into that conversation of how to bring it all together when you’re in that leadership position that you find yourself in.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yeah. And it’s definitely been the most challenging part of

Kristi Faltorusso:
my position, I would say,

Tatiana Ferrera:
is navigating all that. But Launchmetrics, we actually started as a merger from 2 companies, Fashion GPS and Ogier. For any US listeners who potentially work in fashion, a lot of people know the Fashion GPS name. We’ve got our name by Powering Fashion Week here in New York. But that’s really where we started and where I started. And we were as start up as they come. When I joined, we were 5 people, and we did everything. Customer success didn’t exist.

Tatiana Ferrera:
So I was support. I was sales. I was onboarding. I was the janitor when you needed to do that too. Like, really true start up culture back then. But in 2015, we merged with a French company called Dogueira, and we did the operational side. They did the more data metric side, and we became Launchmetrics. And then since then, we had 5 acquisitions that we were a part of that we bought to other companies.

Tatiana Ferrera:
And then most recently, at the beginning of this year, getting my time my timeline right, we were acquired. So it kind of flipped the other way, and we were acquired by a French company called Lectra. So, yes, lot of different moving parts over the 10 plus years.

Josh Schachter:
And now just going back to to the 5 people that you started with where you were doing it all, now you’ve got a 100 people in your org, about 40 CSMs, about 40 on the the ProServe side, and solution consultants. So quite the growth there organically and inorganically.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yep. Exactly. Exactly. I’ve been working with some people for a very, very long time. It’s been part part of the fun, though, of course.

Jon Johnson:
With all those I mean, it’s obviously, that’s a lot of changes. You would think not just like, we hired somebody new, but organizational changes. Right? How how do you, as a leader, continue kind of the stability with your, individual contributors and folks on your team, that are kinda getting thrown into the ringer over and over and over again? Has there been a lot of change when it comes to goals? Has there been a kind of a lot of, like, those process organizational changes? Walk me through how you how you keep it the ship steady, for your team.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yeah. And it definitely depends on the moment in time that we talk about. Every acquisition has been different, of course, depending on the employees, the way that they’ve worked in the past, how service heavy they are. I would say that’s been, to be honest, the biggest learning point points for me. I would say on the Launchmetrics, Fashion GPS side, and we’re very, very software driven. So, of course, every SaaS company, you have services elements. Right? Even if it’s just your onboarding, let’s say, there’s a service component to that. But some of the other companies that we acquired were more on the pro services side.

Tatiana Ferrera:
So we have a reporting offer. That’s part of what we do. So that means people who are creating reports, looking at data, analyzing. It’s a lot of billable time you’re talking about. So that was a huge change and shift for me and for us, acquiring those companies. And I would say it’s really listening as well. Like, I think when you are being acquired, it’s always that scary, what are they gonna change? What are they gonna do? Who are they gonna lay off? I think that’s with any company. And so making sure that you’re communicating as openly and as honestly as you can about what’s going on, knowing that, of course, there are things that are gonna be proprietary sometimes, but keeping that door open and as you know information that can be shared, sharing it, sharing the vision, and sharing that you might not have it all figured out.

Tatiana Ferrera:
That’s something that I I just said to someone on my team last week. I was like, okay. We tried something. I know it’s not working. I’m not blind to the fact that it’s not perfect, but we tried. Right? We tried, and we now know what doesn’t work. So now let’s try something else. Yeah.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Just being as open as you can, I think, I hope keeps people motivated and part of the reason why why they stay?

Josh Schachter:
So so okay. So listening is huge. Yep. During a time where there’s more sensitivity as teams are evolving, coming together, and breaking up in many ways as well. What else is in that PMI playbook, that post merger integration playbook from your couple of experiences going through this?

Tatiana Ferrera:
I think finding alignment as part of that listening. Right? So pointing out, like, there’s not as many differences as maybe you think there there is or there are. Understanding what makes the employees tick as well. Like, okay, what are you motivated by? For some people, it’s not always the things that seem obvious. Right? So I’m talking about salary bonus, compensation package, etcetera. For some people, it is about, well, I’ve done this for my whole career. How can I make sure that I don’t lose control over my customers or what I’m doing and kind of making them see the light, so to speak? So understand, okay, maybe you’re not gonna do things in the exact same way that you were before. Let’s understand what those things are.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Let’s understand what’s taking up a lot of your time and how can we break that up to be more effective in what you’re doing and really good at and enjoying versus trying to do everything. Because I feel like that’s the common thread, I would say, with a lot of the the companies that we’ve acquired. And I’m I feel lucky in saying that, but I feel like a lot of the team that we’ve inherited are so passionate about their customers, but almost to a fault. And I’ve been there myself. I’m still there sometimes with some clients. Right? You care too much. You wanna do everything. Be that single point of contact, but then you can also be the single point of failure and that’s not good either.

Tatiana Ferrera:
So I think too, like, breaking up what their responsibilities are today to then map, like, okay, what can that look like in a future scenario? And making sure, again, the dialogue is there. If you change someone’s role overnight and you’re like, actually, this isn’t what you’re doing anymore. This is now what you’re doing. This is what you’re measured against. I’d be willing to bet that even if a great compensation package was thrown their way with that, they would still be really uncomfortable and potentially unhappy. Right? Like, of course, compensation is part of it, but it’s not the only thing, and we need to be sensitive to that.

Kristi Faltorusso:
And, Tatiana, one of the things that I’ve always kind of anchored on is this people like change to happen with them, not to them. So how do you bring folk along through the shake them feel even if it’s by perception make them feel like they’re included in the redesign as you navigate some of these big changes?

Tatiana Ferrera:
So one of the goal setting frameworks the goal setting framework we do use is OKRs. I’m a big fan of OKRs. We’ve used that for a long time, and I think even that, you kind of realize, like, oh, maybe not everyone’s familiar with objective queue results in case any listeners are not. I’m sure most of your listeners are. But in case people are not familiar, even explaining, like, this is what they are. This is why we’re doing it. It’s because we all feel, like, part of the same ship and we’re steering in the right direction. Right? And having that, again, including them on that conversation, like, this is what they were last year.

Tatiana Ferrera:
This is what we did. This is what we didn’t do. How do you see it? Why do you feel like we didn’t achieve what we needed to achieve? What would you change? How would you structure the OKRs versus maybe just taking your middle management layer if you’re a leader, just listening to them, and that’s kind of where the OKR setting stops. I think really listening to the employees is how you make sure they feel a part of it too and that they are, again, like, part of that change, versus the change just happening to them. So involving them in that, I’m also, generally speaking, I try to do as many skip level meetings as I can, maybe not with individual employees, but at least with different teams. Right? We used to travel a lot more before COVID. Travel has picked back up. We’re a big global footprint company even if we’re not huge in terms of number of employees, but getting face time with people.

Tatiana Ferrera:
We’re all people. So I think just getting to know them also in person on a personal level and having those conversations when you can in person helps a lot. But, yeah, breaking down those potential barriers that are there and having open conversations about what works and what doesn’t work. I think sometimes that’s a hard pill to swallow as leaders. What doesn’t work is usually there’s a there’s a reason why. It’s because I wanted to implement this thing, but it got cut from the budget or whatever. Right? We have we have the reasons behind the why, but it’s important for you to still know that the team isn’t happy with whatever it might be, that there’s still an issue that needs to be addressed.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Tell us a little bit about the way

Josh Schachter:
you have you’re organized now. I mentioned a little bit of the headcount, but talk a little bit more about the structure of your post sales org, how they interact with each other, a little bit about the the the coverage model and those sorts of things.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yep. And we are still in transition, transitioning again. I feel like every every year or 2, we we transition a bit. But most recently, the last acquisition we did, we are still integrating. So, there’s there’s still a bit changing. But formally speaking today, we have our customer success org, and they are split into, let’s say, the two sides of our our cloud product. Right? So they’re specialized CSMs. And a lot of times, you kind of see that.

Tatiana Ferrera:
I’ve seen it at other organizations where it’s byproduct. But for us, we have done it by the grouping. So if you are a CSM that’s focused on the operational part of our cloud or toolset, You are responsible for, let’s say, knowing true and true 3 of the 6 products that we have, and you are owning the customer relationship, the adoption, the EDRs, the value of the renewal, etcetera, on that part of the product suite. And then we have other CSMs that are specialized on the more metric side of the product suite that we have. So they should be more in the know with what’s happening, not just with the the industry in terms of data and performance, but know a little bit more about how to interpret data, look at data, to be more of a thought leader for the customer. Because, arguably, when you’re talking data, that’s where the value comes in is understanding the data. So it’s allowed them to go deeper in the product set, know more not just about what it is the products do, but, again, the value that the products are being. And that was a tricky change for us, and it’s still ongoing.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Again, because we were organized in a way where even on the CS side, you were the single point of contact for your customer when it came to CS. But when you’re doing that across 6 different products and you’re responsible for the successful adoption, it gets impossible at one point. So even that change, acquisitions aside, just even with the existing team was a big change for them of understanding, but, okay, that’s that’s weird. Like, I used to just speak to this person and now I have to share my customer with somebody else. Like, how are EBRs gonna work? And it’s like, well, the 2 of you can be present. That’s okay. Like, you can own one part of it and talk to one part and the other CSM will talk to the other part. And the reason for that change also was to then find better growth opportunities, etcetera.

Tatiana Ferrera:
So create focus. So that’s our CS structure. Aside from the spec So

Josh Schachter:
you have so you have multiple CSMs that can be interacting with with a a single customer. I I would imagine that, like you said, there’s benefits. There’s more hands on deck. There’s more, there’s deeper knowledge in different different parts of the overall platform. Probably, the trade off is there’s just more,

Kristi Faltorusso:
more or Yes. Yeah. Not Josh’s strong point.

Josh Schachter:
Weak weak points, right, of of communication drop off? Yes. Communication. Yes. Yes. Well, that’s the word that I’m struggling to find. Yes, Josh.

Jon Johnson:
We have to talk more.

Josh Schachter:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So so did did you see have you seen any hiccups of that, and how are you addressing that?

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yeah. Sometimes it’s a, well, are they gonna answer, or am I gonna answer? And then it kinda falls in no man’s land. So for sure, that that’s been a challenge, that we’ve tried to to address, and I think it’s become clearer with time. Like, okay. Well, if it, again, is speaking to or connected to the part of the cloud that I’m responsible for overseeing, then it should be me and vice versa. So that’s for sure part of it. I think the part that I get the most concerned about is the client confusion. Right? I never want the client to feel like they’re having a bad experience.

Tatiana Ferrera:
So this question of, oh, do I reach out to team member a or team member b? That I will first handedly admit is, like, painful if I have customers who who have that feeling, and I’m sure they do. But at some point, you kind of have to make that decision of the trade off. Right? Like, is it gonna be better long term for the customer even if it’s confusing at the get go? And little by little with time, they too start understanding who to reach out to for what. And you can make that argument for anything. Right? Salespeople and CSMs. Do I reach out to my salesperson? Do do I reach out to my CSMs? And I think it takes time.

Josh Schachter:
I just cc both. I cc everybody, and who cares about the time?

Tatiana Ferrera:
Someone will get back to me. Exactly.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Hey, everybody. It’s Josh. I’m taking a quick break from the podcast to tell you a bit about UpdateAI. I started UpdateAI to solve 2 major challenges for CS teams. The first is that we save CSMs 4 to 5 hours per week with our productivity through AI. Secondly, we give leaders a window into all the conversations across each account and the entire portfolio. So we help knowledge transfer, we help increase the coverage model of your CS teams, and we help you detect emerging patterns in what your customers are telling your CSMs across all the risks, product feedback, advocacy moments, and expansion opportunities.

Josh Schachter:
So come check us out at www.updateai. It’s completely free to sign up and trial.

Jon Johnson:
I I think it’s I really like that that that point. So much of what we do in this industry is changing. And I think as CSMs, we’re like, oh my gosh, we have to make it so comfortable for our customers. That pendulum swings probably quite a bit too much. And and we kind of forget that it’s like, I mean, every 3 or 4 months when I send an email to my AT and T rep at somebody new, I figure it out. Right? Like, part of that process is learning not just the correct path, but also where to go to get to the correct path. And I I I like the way that you’re you’re kinda communicating that at least internally to say, like, they might reach out to the wrong person, and that’s okay. But everybody internally knows where they need to go, and we’ll get them in the right space.

Jon Johnson:
Some some of my favorite moments are when that customer finally, like, clicks. It’s like, oh, I I finally got the right time at the right person, and they have that little win.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Is that really a win, John? I don’t know, man. Like, is that really a win that the customer has

Josh Schachter:
to navigate their way to the right person and then, like, they finally figured out?

Kristi Faltorusso:
They finally got to the person who can answer

Josh Schachter:
their question, and that’s like a a that’s like a hallmark moment for you. I feel like that’s like a a a churn indicator.

Jon Johnson:
Okay. Well, then the the show me a SaaS company that hasn’t gone through massive change over the last 3 to 6 months where you have to have that process

Kristi Faltorusso:
John, why are you fighting with Josh who’s never done customer success before? Let him go on his own journey.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. But I I I well, okay, Christy.

Kristi Faltorusso:
I don’t I don’t wanna celebrate that as a win, but we are happy when it does get it figured out.

Jon Johnson:
Saying that’s our goal. I’m saying it’s fun when the customer that always goes to the wrong person finally gets the hint and actually sends it to the right person. That’s fine.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Because you

Josh Schachter:
know what, Jim? Do do do you wanna hear me on the phone as a customer when I

Jon Johnson:
finally get to the right person

Kristi Faltorusso:
to send

Jon Johnson:
you the right person?

Kristi Faltorusso:
You’re not my customer. Fine.

Jon Johnson:
I said, talking to Andy, anything you wanna

Kristi Faltorusso:
talk about, Josh? It’s that time in the recording. I

Tatiana Ferrera:
I too though understand what it’s a customer, how frustrating it is. Like I said, it’s painful for me too to, like, imagine when it goes the wrong way, but it’s it’s a trade off. Like, at some point, something something’s gotta give. You have to do what’s best for them even if they don’t always know what’s best for them, which is also sometimes the reality. And I think anyone who’s been in CS knows that.

Josh Schachter:
So what’s the trade off? What’s the I mean, you mentioned it, but, like, what’s the big thing that’s pushing the pendulum over in that trade off for you? And I’m sorry if I missed it.

Tatiana Ferrera:
No. Well, when you have when you have one point of contact as a customer, right, you’re most likely going to get an answer faster. Right? One person, they’re automatically gonna come back to you. But when you have a point

Kristi Faltorusso:
of contact

Tatiana Ferrera:
Consortium. Supposed to know everything, they probably don’t. So, yes, you might have one point of contact that you reach out to, but then you have the risk of them either potentially giving I don’t wanna say the wrong information, but maybe not the best recommendation or information. Right? I’m trying to do something. I’m trying to create a report. I’m trying to read this data. It’s telling me you have a a CSM that knows a little bit of everything. They’re probably gonna be like, oh, yeah.

Tatiana Ferrera:
You you can do this. Whatever this may be. But if you have someone who specialized can go deep, they’re gonna give you the best recommendation when we think about advising customers. So that’s the trade off. Do you want, like, a quick response that, like, maybe is gonna be good enough, or do you want the person who’s gonna advise you in the best way possible even if it takes a bit longer to get to that person?

Josh Schachter:
And you just felt like there’s there’s certain complexities and silos around your product that that that facilitates that type of setup for you.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Exactly. Exactly.

Josh Schachter:
Cool. Makes sense.

Tatiana Ferrera:
And anyone who wants it figured out, I’m happy to connect and speak to to any kind of leader who has that. Because I think anyone with a complex, SaaS SaaS product, it’s it’s tricky. And I don’t know that it’s perfect.

Josh Schachter:
No. But I I mean, I I I like that you’re experimenting, that you’re pushing the bounds, that you’re trying to iterate and figure out new models. Right? Like, that’s that’s actually the really important takeaway for me. So right now, we are close to the end of the year. We are all thinking about priorities and budgets and whatnot for next year. So but tell us, like, what what’s your priority going into q one at the beginning of the year?

Tatiana Ferrera:
It’s a great question because I think there’s there are many. If I probably have to choose 1, and and I’ve talked about this even this year. So I I think by saying it’s a q one priority, I’m cheating a little bit. So it’s a 2024, priority that’s moved a bit. But automation, again, I think due to our history, we just it’s the reality. We have a complicated, let’s say, technical setup. Right? A lot of legacy legacy code, data, lives in different places, etcetera. I’m not the right person to get into the the technical complexities of it all, but, it’s hard to get access to the right data at the right time when you need it.

Tatiana Ferrera:
And we need that if we’re ever going to automate and scale in the way that I would love to as a post sales and CS organization. We have customers of a lot of different sizes. Right? So when we were talking about the CS setup, we have specialized CSMs, but then we also have it by tiers of customers. I think that’s pretty common for for a lot of CS orgs. Right? So enterprise or tier 1 versus SMB or tier 2, tier 3. We also have CSMs, focused in that way. But when you get to that, let’s say, lower tier when you have a one to many approach, then it becomes difficult in a different way for those CSMs. Right? So automating customer outreach specifically for us is a a big initiative that, like I said, we’ve been trying to push this year that will inevitably fall into q one.

Tatiana Ferrera:
But making sure that, you know, for customers not using the product or not using a certain key adoption feature that we’re reaching out to them at the right time and not leaving it all in the hands of the CSM, because that can get impossible the bigger your your book of business is growing.

Josh Schachter:
What’s in your tech stack right now if you can share?

Kristi Faltorusso:
That’s what I was gonna ask.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yes. We are using Gainsight. We also use, like, Salesforce, but Gainsight on the CS side is what we’re using and and trying to build the automated communications from the digital journey, if you will. And so as

Kristi Faltorusso:
oh. Oh, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. I was

Tatiana Ferrera:
gonna say it’s not just the technical side. So, of course, that’s part of it. But then again, like, coming back to the earlier point in the conversation, for some CSMs, it’s also rethinking the way they think. Right? Because then they’re like, well, what if the wrong email communication goes out to my customer? Then it’s, like, embarrassing on me. So also explaining to them, like, it’s okay. Automation is a good thing. It should give you back some time. But making sure it’s done right is priority number 1.

Jon Johnson:
That’s actually kinda what I was gonna ask. Obviously, this is kind of a new skill set for a lot of folks that are either kinda new newer to CS, but also maybe haven’t had access to all of the tools or, you know, experiences that some of us have had with Gainsight and these other great tools out there. How are you keeping and how are your leaders keeping your CSMs kind of on top of the fact that it’s supposed to change every 3 or 4 months? Like, we’re not gonna have the one playbook to rule them all again for 3 years that we just kind of use as the bible. It’s gotta be this kind of constant flux. How do you build trust and empower them to find comfort in that when it’s not necessarily something that’s been in our industry before?

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yep. I think the way you build trust with anything is proving that it works. So we’re not trying to do everything at once. Right? Let’s do if we’re taking customer communication automation as an example, let’s do 1, launch it, make sure it’s reaching the right people. No one’s panicking. No one’s saying it’s I got this complaint from this customer about these annoying emails. Make sure that it’s relevant, that we get good feedback on it, then continue to build and launch more. Because I think yeah.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Well, I think doing too much too soon also can be problematic for other reasons, but especially for building trust with this with your CSMs. That’s the way to do it. Just do a little bit at a time. Make sure that they’re they’re bought into it.

Josh Schachter:
What’s that like that? You’ve said customer outreach automating that. Like, what specifically I wanna drill into that specifically. What’s the outreach that you want to have automated?

Tatiana Ferrera:
For us, it’s adoption related. So we depending on the tools, depending on the customers, of course, they’re engaging with our products at different moments during fight, take fashion as an example, during the fashion season. So maybe they always use our events tools. Usually, the easiest one people understand, events tool during fashion week makes sense. You have a fashion show, you’re gonna use the events tool. But you can be using events for pop ups, dinner parties, all these other events that fashion brands, industry brands are putting on, But it might not always click for them. Right? Like, same thing for customers. They’re kinda just used to doing things in one way.

Tatiana Ferrera:
So reaching out to them in an automated way of like, hey, you could use events for other things. If we have the data that’s showing, hey, they haven’t created an event since, whatever it might be, 60 days, 90 days. We have magic triggers depending on the the behaviors and the time periods, obviously, but largely related to adoption.

Josh Schachter:
Yep. Yep. Makes sense.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Have you built

Josh Schachter:
out That’s actually the Oh,

Kristi Faltorusso:
sorry, Josh. Nope. I’m gonna go. Nope. I’m gonna go. Yep. So, Tatiana, so it sounds like right now it’s a little bit reactive, right, because it’s based on things your customers are aren’t doing. Are you working to pivot that strategy so that your digital approach actually is more proactive with your customers?

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yes. And I I wouldn’t say it’s we’re all reactive, but particularly with the smaller ones, yes. Like, we definitely are way more reactive with the smaller ones. Again, you have a CSM that’s expected to be reaching so many customers where when you get the larger customers, you have a smaller bulk Yeah.

Kristi Faltorusso:
It’s a different model completely. Exactly.

Tatiana Ferrera:
So, yes, the pivot is to make those small customers not only be more proactive in reality, but also feel it. Right? You wanna make sure that your customers also feel like you’re being proactive with them and and supported by you. So that’s a shift for us for sure.

Josh Schachter:
You know, I think we’re probably reaching a point where, like so I I get it. Like, if if a customer doesn’t accomplish, like, a milestone metric, that’s a risk, and and you wanna make sure that they’re engaged and have the proper usage. I think we’re probably reaching a point with with AI where we should also to Christy’s point, to be more proactive, we should be able to read the bread crumbs of the other activity that would normally lead up to that milestone activity and then be able to put, like, you know, with a certain probability threshold, say, okay. Ding ding ding. This person is at risk not even to get to that point where we would normally, you know, ping them, and and that might be too late almost. That’s just my my thoughts there.

Jon Johnson:
Well, I think that I mean, this big blank space for me too, you know, we’ve been doing these episodes almost every week now for for a couple of years, and we talk a lot about how the digital tools are kind of helping us be more proactive or helping us be more, you know, in front of customers. But we don’t actually, like, see what if because if a tool is sending an email proactively, what is the individual doing with that data? Right? And I think there’s this there’s this, education gap when it comes to CSMs and leadership to say, hey. Great. Yeah. Like, I just had a bunch of stuff go out. My new process is not sending emails and, like, waiting for responses. It’s actually analyzing the data based on those triggers. Right? Because it’s it’s almost like you say I’m being proactive, but I’m actually just kinda sitting in the background looking at at, you know, data.

Jon Johnson:
That that that doesn’t feel proactive. Right? It’s always kind of getting to that next action that may be an automated thing. So this isn’t a question. It’s more of just kind of like a general statement that I’m feeling is as we get more tools that are claiming to be more proactive, we actually find more CSMs that just kind of sit and say, okay. What do I do next? And they wait for the tool to tell them, which is not a proactive response. It is a proactive outreach, but then there’s that kind of big Venn diagram of how are we encouraging and engaging our CSMs to stay proactive with data analysis and, like you said, following those bread crumbs.

Tatiana Ferrera:
And the other huge part, I think, is enablement. Right? Or, like, having the right skill set, let’s say. Like, maybe the skill set that you expect of your CSMs is also shifting. It’s shifting for us. It shifts every few years. Right? But that’s that’s a it’s a great point and a a big point, for me and for us is understanding, okay, what types, let’s say, the different roles, the different profiles of the CSMs, what are the skills that we really need for each role and profile, because it might not be the same. It might not be the same for us in terms of specialization specialization, but also in terms of the role itself. Right? Someone who’s more of an entry level versus it or senior.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Sometimes you have a senior CSM who thinks they know it all and can do it all, but maybe that’s something they know nothing about. Right? Like, really understanding the data behind whatever it might be. Right? We’re talking about, again, automation, but there’s so much other data that we sit on, quote, unquote, and even figuring that out. Like, what data is going to help me in being truly proactive with my customers? And I’d be I would be very, very confident in saying that it’s it’s rare today to maybe find so many CSMs who have that skill set already because it’s a new need from the industry. Right? So how do we also it’s a question I’ve asked myself a lot. How do we better enable the people that we do have to get to that point?

Josh Schachter:
What’s your next step, Tatiana? You’ve been with the company for 9 years. I’m not asking you if you’re leaving or anything like that. I’m just saying, like, you know, what’s what’s growth look like for you in the new year?

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yeah. So I guess it all depends, to be very honest. We’re now a part of Elektra, so I’m sure that has some some new challenges that will will present itself. You know, we’re integrating slowly but surely, but I’ve also always said the reason I’ve say it is because things change. Right? I think when you’re kind of doing the same thing over and over again, that’s kind of where you start maybe getting bored. We change a lot. So I’m sure the Lectra acquisition will be some new changes. But even within the existing org that that I have, I touched on it before, we’re still figuring out some parts of it and how to rework it out.

Tatiana Ferrera:
The act with last acquisition we made before we were acquired, those teams are still being integrated into the post sales work. And a lot of those teams have more of professional services type of background. So a lot of background. So a lot of enablement and figuring out, you know, where where do these, you know, people sit long term? Where does it make sense? Is it more of a CS role? Is it more of a professional services role? Is it something in between? And we’ve been trying that out this year. So having a kind of mixed role, if I can call it that, having your traditional CS responsibilities with a layer of professional services built in. So I’m hoping that we figure that out and finalize it in 2025, so that we have a true smooth sailing, let’s say, post sales org because this year has been a lot of learning.

Josh Schachter:
Learning’s for everybody.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yep. Exactly.

Josh Schachter:
Well, it sounds like a dynamic environment. It sounds like a lot of growth and learning there for sure, and we wish you the absolute very best towards the end of this year and into the new year. And I’d be remiss in in not, sharing with our listeners here if you’re not watching the YouTube of this with Christie darting in and out of this meeting for some unknown reading.

Jon Johnson:
It just keeps kicking her out.

Kristi Faltorusso:
It does. It doesn’t want me. So you know how hard it is to come back in and and try to be part of a conversation where you miss, like, at least 1 to 2 minutes at a time?

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you know what? I’m gonna try that. Next time, I don’t wanna engage. I’m just gonna try

Jon Johnson:
doing that technique. Oh, shoot. Yeah. Oh, okay. My jacket.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. No. But but I wanted to just say that wasn’t the point. The point was, like like, Christie has the the nicest, like, nicest Pier 1 imports display

Kristi Faltorusso:
is what I’m saying of, like, of of

Josh Schachter:
Christmas of Christmas swag and

Kristi Faltorusso:
set up.

Tatiana Ferrera:
As a huge Christmas fan, I deeply appreciate the background. I have

Jon Johnson:
this gosh.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Amazing.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Yeah. With a fireplace, how cozy.

Kristi Faltorusso:
Like You know, I I put a lot of work into my aesthetic and my background, Josh, so I’m gonna pretend like you’re not being sarcastic and that you actually appreciate that.

Jon Johnson:
A compliment.

Kristi Faltorusso:
We don’t know. You can’t In my way, never tell.

Josh Schachter:
No. No. In my way, I am. I mean, listen. I’m sitting here with the camera angled up to the ceilings that you can’t see like my my messy bed in my childhood bedroom at my parents’ house in Connecticut. So I’m one to talk.

Jon Johnson:
Yeah. So he’s got a session with this therapist right after this

Kristi Faltorusso:
to work through that.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Alright.

Kristi Faltorusso:
So we’re gonna

Josh Schachter:
touch on it. This is great.

Tatiana Ferrera:
Thank you all. It was it was great chatting with you guys. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Thanks, guys. Bye.