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Josh Schachter:

Unturned is presented by UpdateAI.

Jared Orr:

It was it caught me off guard. I mean, we were all the customer success team, we were already a shell of what we should have been. We needed more CSMs at that team on that team. So I didn’t know that we were even going through layoffs and, basically, everyone that had been hired in the last year less than a year ago at that point, was laid off. So I was I was part of that. So I just remember, like, after Through the call I had with my manager and with the head of HR, they were like, this is your last day. Thank you for everything that you’ve done, you know, all all the things like that, and that That was the end of the call and I was done. Like, I was they they deleted my email and Slack channel.

Jared Orr:

Everything was just gone, like, within seconds after that call. And And I’m just kind of sitting there like, okay. I mean, I’ve got a good networking customer success. I know a lot of people. I got a good brand. So Give it a month or 2, I’ll I’ll find another job. And I get get on LinkedIn and start looking for customer success jobs, and I could not find Jack because the market was so bad. And it made me realize I was, like, this is probably gonna take a while.

Josh Schachter:

Hey, everybody, and welcome to this episode of CS and BS, An uninsured podcast series presented by UpdateAI. I’m Josh Schacter, founder and CEO of UpdateAI. And it’s a pleasure to be here today, with my cohost,

Jon Johnson:

John Johnson. Hey, guys. John here. I’ve been scaling enterprise strategy, value, and retention for the last 12 years. I currently work, stuff for user testing, where, the principal customer success manager for our key account segment.

Josh Schachter:

And, John, I’m queuing you to put your freaking mic up to your mouth there. I’ve never never had I have to tell you to speak louder in this show. Never will I again.

Jon Johnson:

Stuff. How’s that, Josh?

Josh Schachter:

Oh, that’s so much better.

Jon Johnson:

Is that so much better?

Josh Schachter:

Voice of God right there. There we go. Yeah.

Jon Johnson:

Well, I

Josh Schachter:

We learned that we learned in the last episode that you’re a religious man, so there there’s that’s The voice of God. It’s more fitting now that I know about your background. For sure.

Jon Johnson:

Perfect. Alright.

Josh Schachter:

Okay. Not that close. Alright. Jared, we have with us, mister Jared Orr. So Jared wears many hats. One of the hats that he wears is he actually, is helping UpdateAI. He works with UpdateAI on producing our newsletter, which helps us with this podcast. Jared has been a senior customer success manager for many years.

Josh Schachter:

He has his own side business. He has a podcast on customer success, and he’s yeah. He’s just a renaissance man.

Jared Orr:

Just generally

Josh Schachter:

The renaissance man of customer success. Yeah. And a great guy and a freaking great guy. Jared, thank you for being on the show today.

Jared Orr:

Thanks, Josh. And, my 2 year old was clawing at at the door as you were starting the podcast. So for those that heard, that was my year old fine. Everything’s okay, though. I’m also a dad.

Josh Schachter:

Okay. So There’s not.

Jon Johnson:

You’re you’re allowed to have a life, Jared.

Jared Orr:

Thank you. Appreciate that.

Josh Schachter:

So I joked before we went live here, but from now on, Our guests have to when they listen to the show recording the next week or the next couple days, the goal is to make them cry hearing their own story

Jon Johnson:

Yep.

Josh Schachter:

After after we had with John last week. Because, John, your story was really, really heartwarming, really, honestly. Like, so much soul in it. And you sent Christy and myself and Mickey a voice memo? Because you like, tell us about that, John. Tell us before we get into Jared’s story, tell us about your reflection on your own story. Yeah.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah. And I’m I I mean, I think this is kind of, like, paramount to what we do here. Right? We should always be reflecting on what we’ve learned and and kinda where we’re going. And I and I was really appreciative of and, you know, just thank you so much. So many people have reached out to me on LinkedIn and Slack groups just to, like, You know, say thank you for sharing the stories. But also for me, being able to kinda paint this picture in a conversational way was incredibly helpful to, I think Ty some of the experiences that I had with my parents that, you know, I don’t I don’t think I have really ever told in a in a business way. So

Josh Schachter:

Cool. Awesome. That’s great. It makes me feel really good hearing that. Jared, we want to get into your story here. So tell us, Tell us a little bit about, you know, what you do.

Jon Johnson:

What I do? The CS whisperer.

Jared Orr:

The c oh my gosh. Yeah. No. Well, I I started in customer success back in 2018. I got a, client advocate role, at a social media marketing company and, you know, the rest is history. Been in customer success ever since. I started creating content on LinkedIn and also blogging and podcasting back in 2020. That’s really when I started to build my brand.

Jared Orr:

That’s how I met John. That’s how I met Josh. That’s how I met Christie. All the people in customer success, I started meeting in 2020 when Everyone was locked down, not doing anything, and I was kinda building my brand, doing all that fun stuff. Yeah. So that’s That’s a very, very 10,000,000 foot overview of what I do.

Josh Schachter:

Now, Jared?

Jon Johnson:

What do you do now? Okay. What do I

Jared Orr:

do now? So I was laid off back in June, which I’m happy to to talk more about. And so I’m I’m looking for my next customer successful. So that’s my shameless plug right there for those listening.

Jon Johnson:

Hire me. Hire me.

Jared Orr:

Yeah. Right? But I also, back in July, month after getting a let off, start started a copywriting business, because I started content creation back in 2020. I learned that I love to blog and create content and write online, so I’m, like, What if I make a business out of this? So I talked to some mentors of mine and they said, you got the skills of a copywriter, you should probably go with all in on that. I’m like, Sure. So I looked into it and I decided I would start it. So Sharp Brand LLC. I think we can probably link that my my website in the description here. But I do copywriting

Josh Schachter:

for You should pay for that, but that’s okay.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah. It’s only for paid partnerships.

Josh Schachter:

Well well yeah. We’ll negotiate that after the show.

Jared Orr:

Okay. Yeah. So that’s what I do. So I I I guess I work with Josh. I, just actually started working with Ezra Zimbler. Oh, I love Ezra so much. Yeah. Gonna start doing some work for him.

Jared Orr:

I got some other friends that I’ve done some one off copywriting projects for. So I I’m learning that I absolutely love this. I feel like I’m, you know, the, I I’m I’m like the the the version of Don Draper where I’m faithful to my wife and I don’t smoked cigarettes, but I’m also really, you know, the copy. So any Mad Men fans listening to this, forget that. But yeah.

Jon Johnson:

We know you mentioned and, you know, we’ll talk about too, but you you posted something on LinkedIn this morning that I thought really resonated with a lot of folks in the industry, and it’s it’s also kind of like the thing that you’re talking about. I heard somebody else say on LinkedIn that we’re kind of in a choose your own adventure society and economy right now where Look at there’s so many people have been laid off and so many rifts. Right? And the, you know, the heart of your post was, yeah, you could go spend 5 months like you have applying for jobs, which you should do. But, also, like, look at the skills that you’re doing that they were paying for you at your last job or the things that you’re really good at, and is there a fit for you to step out into something that is on your own. You’ve always been kind of an entrepreneurial guy. I remember when we first met back in 2020, you know, you were You’re doing a lot of the blogging and the podcasting. Mhmm. But what it is what is it about you that can’t sit still long enough? You know, that has to kinda have 10 projects.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah. You and I are similar like that. You just kinda always, like, oh, I’m doing this now. Right? But, you seem to be finding, some harmony with your personality and the things that you want to do, in this career.

Jared Orr:

Yeah. Well, the the easy answer is I have ADHD. So, So, you know, it’s hard for me to sit still and not do anything. That’s just that’s just how I’ve always been. But also, I’ve always been very entrepreneurial minded. Like, I remember when I was a little kid. Right? I would constantly be, like, making brownies or cookies or Finding random crap around the house that I could sell. I had a little table that I would bring out to the to my curb and, to to my front lawn and just, like, sell random stuff.

Jared Orr:

I remember one time, I literally found, like, 5 or 6 hats around the house, none of which were mine.

Josh Schachter:

They’re probably on my parents, and and

Jared Orr:

I was like, I’m gonna sell these. So I put them all on the table outside and, you know, waved cars down. I was, like, probably 5 or 6 years old and made maybe $10 from doing that. So it’s always been the mentality that I’ve been in. It’s just like, oh, what can I work on? What can I create? And I think today in our hyper consumerism economy that we’re in, you know, I think we people need to be creating something. You know? You you should be creating just as much as you’re consuming, if not more, in my opinion. To me, I think that’ll, like, solve a lot of our problems if we wanna get into that, but, yeah, that’s just how I’ve always been.

Josh Schachter:

Jared, I wanna cut over to the the customer success stuff, and I actually wanna get, like, specific if if it’s okay with you. You’ll You’ll you’ll calibrate. And what you have is what you have to filter here. You were an enterprise customer success manager with Tatango. You joined in October 2022, so 13 months ago. Yep. And, and actually, I remember. Right? I think you had just joined around the time of the Tatango, user conference in Miami if it were maybe right after right afterwards.

Josh Schachter:

And you were there until this past July.

Jon Johnson:

Mhmm. And

Josh Schachter:

so you’re rolling on 5 months now of unemployment. Can you tell us a story? Can you tell us the the tatango story? Because you were there for 10 months, and I imagine that there’s so many others that are in that situation where, I’m I’m guessing here, you can prove me wrong or right, that it’s, like, kind of, last in first out LIFO, if anybody if any Any industrial engineers or operations research people are there listening? So, like, it’s last in first out as far as, when companies are going through a tough time or they need to make riffs. So, like, what was that experience like for you?

Jared Orr:

Mhmm. Yeah. It was, I mean, it was caught me off guard. I I mean, we were all in the customer success team, we were already a shell of what we should have been. We needed more CSMs at that team on that team. So I I didn’t know that we were even going through layoffs and, basically, everyone that had been hired in the last year less than a year ago at that point, was laid off, so I was I was part of that. So I just remember, like, after the call I have with my manager and with the head of HR, They were like, this is your last day. Thank you for everything that you’ve done, you know, all all the things like that, and that was the end of the call and I was done.

Jared Orr:

Like, I was they they deleted my email and Slack channel, everything which is gone, like within seconds after that call. And I’m just kind of sitting there like, okay. I mean, I’ve got a good networking customer success. I know a lot of people. I got a good brand. So give it a month or 2, I’ll find another job. And I get get on LinkedIn and start looking for customer success jobs, and I could not find Jack because the market was so bad. And it made me realize I was like, this is probably gonna take a while.

Jared Orr:

Holy shit. What what what’s gonna happen? Like, what what am I gonna do? Do I need to reinvent myself? Do I need to start a business? Do I need to pivot my career? Do I stick with this? What am I gonna do? Telling my wife, obviously, you know, was never easy, but she has been when I when I listen to this, this is this is probably gonna start making me cry. She has been nothing but an amazing support system for me. She has been, happy every day, telling me that, you know, she believes in me. And, oh, gosh. All the married men listening to this can can understand how those words affect you as a person, as a man, Hearing your wife say, I believe in you. You can do this or you’re getting emotional. Yeah.

Jared Orr:

It it’s what it’s what I’ve needed Yeah. Over these last 5 months to say the least.

Jon Johnson:

Well, I know every time your wife tells me that she believes in me, I feel the same way. So, you know, same page.

Jared Orr:

Time. That’s

Josh Schachter:

what I’m looking for.

Jon Johnson:

Oh, thank you. Appreciate that. No. But I get it. And, you know, but also, like, 5 months, Like, you that’s a cycle. Right? You were talking about the hero’s journey before we started recording, and, the analogy, I think, that you used was you’re, like, at the at the valley right now, right, where, you get excited about an opportunity and maybe in an interview, and then maybe it doesn’t go anywhere. I’d love to kinda hear What your process has been like prepping for the market? You know? Like, did you go through a resume review? Did you hire, you know, somebody to kinda, you know, coach you on interview tactics. Are you trying something different this time, or, you know, like, what has kind of been your process and experience right now while you’re looking for work? And then also, like, What kinda sucks? Like, what what’s been the hardship thing that maybe kinda caught you off guard about all those things that you said? Right? You’ve got experience.

Jon Johnson:

You’ve got network. You’ve got people know you. Like, people like you, which is important. I think I’ve I’ve heard with jobs that they have to like you. But, yeah, you know, that’s a lot of questions, but kinda gives us that that wrapper.

Jared Orr:

Well, I think the biggest thing that I learned very quickly was that I need to be better at going into extreme detail about what I’ve accomplished as a CSM because I am competing with people who are going into extreme detail, so I need to somehow compete with that, And I’ve never been very good at that. I’ve never been good at selling myself as much as I should have. So, like, I I hired Carly.

Josh Schachter:

Oh, John’s great at that. If you need if you need to get consultants on self aggrandizing storytelling. You guys should hook up after the show. We’ll trade

Jon Johnson:

services, Jared.

Jared Orr:

We’ll trade Okay. Appreciate that.

Josh Schachter:

But John John can’t write. So that’s the catch. So Jared, you can write for John and John can speak for you for match made in heaven. Alright. My I’m I’m done. Carry on.

Jared Orr:

No. You’re good. No. It’s all good. Yeah. No. That’s basically, like, what I learned. It’s like I need to learn how to, like, sell myself as a CSM, as a professional.

Jared Orr:

So I hired Carly to basically kinda Get inside of my head and be like, okay. This is how you answer this question. This is these are the numbers that you bring up for, your KPI question and and things that you This is how you talk about this experience to really make it seem like you know what you’re doing and you’re the person for the job. So, grateful I did that because she kinda helped me revamp my resume and revamp my interviews, you know, tactics and styles and everything. So that that’s been good.

Josh Schachter:

Who’s Carly?

Jared Orr:

Carly, Ager? Ager? Ager. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I first first reached out to I’ve reached out to a couple, career coaches, And they all rejected me. So I’m like I’m guessing just used to this now getting rejected by everything and anything.

Jon Johnson:

I didn’t know you could reject that as a career coach.

Jared Orr:

Oh my gosh. I was like, okay, guys, seriously? Like, I’m willing to pay you, like, what I’m paying you, like and you’re rejecting me. What is happening here?

Josh Schachter:

Wait. Wait. Why? So why did they reject you?

Jared Orr:

I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s a great question. I had been rejected so many times over the last 5 months, like, more so than when I was in high school trying to try my luck with the ladies. And that’s saying something because I was rejected a lot back then. And this is like, wow.

Josh Schachter:

So so is the lesson here that if anybody is out of work, you should become a career coach because because Clearly, there is a supply and demand issue for career coaching, and and there’s a ton of demand for career coaches.

Jared Orr:

Clearly, I don’t know. I don’t know, man. That’s a great question.

Jon Johnson:

Champions. If you or anybody you have loved, has been victimized by a career coach, please please call us and let us know.

Jared Orr:

Oh, yeah. Right.

Josh Schachter:

John, what’s your cell number? We’ll we’ll call call this number.

Jared Orr:

I was even asked to, like, apply for the, most creative customer success leader awards, so I did. I got nominated. I even got rejected for that. I’m, like, fucking rejected by everything.

Jon Johnson:

I got rejected too. It’s fine.

Jared Orr:

Yeah. Yeah. I know. You’re so employed though, so rejection doesn’t sting that. Well, actually, you know what? I’m kinda numb to it now. I’m, like, Okay. Whatever. Yeah.

Jon Johnson:

Well, so with that in mind, man, like, I know we love insurance, and we love benefits, and we love steady paychecks. Stuff. Obviously, you’ve got this side thing going. But, you know, given your experience and kinda where you wanna go, do you see yourself moving back into, Like, are you still kind of pursuing, like, a full time job with a company? And Mhmm. I guess, what are the lessons that you’ve learned over the last 5 months that that are maybe gonna kinda shape? You said you need to be more specific. So maybe dig into that a little bit little bit. Like, give us give us an example of what you mean by, kinda adding, you know, specifics.

Jared Orr:

Yeah. Well, yeah, definitely still looking for a full time gig. I I think having that stability, having that insurance, you know, especially with, you know, a 2 year old is it’s it’s good to have. So I I do think that there will be a day where I can take my copywriting business full time. I know that’s possible.

Jon Johnson:

Will

Jared Orr:

it be something that I personally do? Who knows? Like, I that that that part of my journey is to be determined at this point. But, as of right now, It’s like, okay. I’m currently waiting for a job offer from the startup that I’ve been interviewing for for the last month.

Jon Johnson:

That’s awesome.

Jared Orr:

If that doesn’t work out, I’d be their 1st CSM hire, which Just super exciting. Maybe by the time this this podcast is out, I’ll have the job. Who knows? But, something I’m really excited about. If that doesn’t work out, I’ve told myself, I’m gonna have to make a hard pivot. I’m just gonna have to do it because I have a family I gotta support, so I gotta do something. Right? So I’m I’m considering I mean, again, this is kind of goes back to being specific. I’m not being very specific when I’m saying this, but I’m considering pivoting to program management, which is essentially being a CSM for internal employees, which sounds so so fun. I think I would do really well at that.

Jared Orr:

The, one thing is that it’s really the bigger players in the game that are hiring for program managers, like the Microsoft and the Oracles of the world. So, you know, that that would be 1 big hill I’d have to climb, but, or that or completely pivot out of out of software. So I don’t know. I am just at this point, I’m like, I gotta I gotta do something. So I guess I’m not really answering your question about being specific, because that wasn’t a very specific answer, but

Jon Johnson:

I love the self referential. Flow.

Jared Orr:

I’m gonna have to do something.

Josh Schachter:

I think it’s probably helpful to hear because I I think there’s probably others that are in your position. Right? Right? And I’m sorry to hear that, by the way. Like, I’m sorry that you feel like it’s coming to that head. Mhmm. But and I and I and I and I have faith in you because I know I I I know You as a person. I know you professionally, and and I know good things are gonna come because good things happen to good people. But, but there’s probably a lot of people that are in that position. So If anything, misery loves company, and it’s good for for folks to know that others are out there, you know, facing similar, decision points.

Josh Schachter:

Yeah.

Jared Orr:

Yeah. For sure. But I’ll tell you this. I mean, like, waking up every day, knowing that, okay, I am an entrepreneur. I have a business I’m running. I have clients that I’m that I’m working with. You know, that just gives me so much drive to go to the gym and workout, eat a healthy breakfast, start my day, you know, you know, with prayer and with, you know, just a mindset to, like, I’m here to succeed. I’m here to help my clients succeed.

Jared Orr:

I have to I have to set my own schedule. I don’t have a boss telling me what to do. I gotta figure out my own KPIs, and that is so exciting to me. And the fact that I’m doing copywriting even makes me even more excited and invigorated to, like, start each day doing something that I truly enjoy. So to me, that’s a sign that I’m on the right path.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah.

Jared Orr:

I I’m doing the right thing. I I’ll tell you this. I’m not gonna read it, but I wrote a LinkedIn post that I’m gonna post in a year.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah. Like a little

Jared Orr:

all the success that I’ve had and where I am now, because of the decisions that I’m making today.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah.

Jared Orr:

That’s my, like, manifestation right there.

Jon Johnson:

Well, I also love like, I don’t know if you see this in it this, you know, kind of analogy as well, but, you’re talking about a role that you’re waiting for where you’d be the 1st CSM. Right. And you’re you’re looking at at maybe some, like, early stage startups or ahead of role, things like that. That’s a very different experience than what you’ve done in the as an enterprise CSM. Right? And what you just described as building a business, capturing your own KPIs, being your own boss, doing the things that you need, like understanding what’s valuable, like, that absolutely Will translate into what you’re gonna be doing for your next role, you know. And I and I I I think, like, I’d love to kinda hear a little bit about how you’re presenting that. I don’t know. I don’t know.

Jon Johnson:

Do people still care if people have side gigs now? Stuff. You know what I mean? Like, Yeah. Walk me through that.

Jared Orr:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s the one thing. I haven’t been able to really promote it as much So I want to on LinkedIn because I’m still looking for a role that has really nothing to do with copywriting. So I kind of gotta find that balance. But but I’m open about it. I mean, peep people usually I’ve I’ve had in interviews, they’ve asked me, oh, I see you have the Sharp brand thing. What’s that? I’m like, oh, it’s a copywriting business that I’ve started because I’m I’ve been creating content for customer success since 2020, so I decided while I’m unemployed, I can do this and hopefully get paid for it, which is what I’m doing, and I really enjoy it.

Jared Orr:

So I I’m I’m very open about it, but I I I don’t say, like and I plan on taking it full time in a year because then that’ll you know, it’s like, I’m gonna quit in a year. You know, that’s that’s what they hear. So I don’t wanna say that. And that that’s not even really my plan right now. So, yeah. It’s just it’s been interesting dynamic for sure.

Josh Schachter:

Hey. Hey, Guy. Are you open to a little role play?

Jared Orr:

Stuff. A little role play.

Jon Johnson:

I’ve always had to say no to Josh when he asked them that question.

Josh Schachter:

Yes. I know. I know. And we didn’t we didn’t we didn’t, rehearse this either, I’m catching you guys off guard. But, you know, UpdateAI is currently hiring a CSM.

Jared Orr:

No way. Seriously?

Josh Schachter:

No. Oh. But imagine where we were. What what I would like for you to do is I I I mean, why, like, why would we why why you, Jared? Why are you a great candidate for The 1st CSM? The fur yeah. Exactly. The 1st CSM at UpdateAI.

Jared Orr:

Yeah. Well, I I’ve been in customer success for going on 6 Sears now. One of my favorite roles as a customer success manager was when I was the 2nd CSM hire for a global software company. I was there for over 2 years, and when I left, we had over 10 CSMs. We had implemented HubSpot, ChurnZero, written out playbooks, processes, and I was involved in all of that, to some extent, like some more than others. I wrote out playbooks that we ended up putting into churn zero. I wrote out a customer journey map, had I mapped up milestones that we ended up programming into churn zero, you know, automating a lot of our processes and the whole Chuck customer journey. And as I was doing all this, I learned that I loved building these kind of things from from scratch, from the ground up.

Jared Orr:

And to me, I feel it’s almost easier to Be a customer success leader at an early stage start up than it is for a larger organization because, like, early is more fun because you’re literally building things out from the ground up and you have that you you can make that impact, early impact. So I guess to really answer your question, like, I have a passion. I have a passion for customer success. I have built out, you know, processes for customer SaaS teams, and I am a believer in people. I know that’s not the most popular thing to say these days, But I believe in the goodness and the, the abilities of humans. And when you hire the right people, when you build the right team of like minded individuals who just want to succeed, you are unstoppable. And I wanna be able to do something like that in my career, is build out that team and build out those processes.

Jon Johnson:

So Yeah.

Josh Schachter:

Josh John, how do we do?

Jon Johnson:

Yeah. I was gonna say, do we get to tear tear him apart now and tell him why

Josh Schachter:

he’s Yeah. I mean, I’m I’m just the one that asked the question. Yeah. This is the role play. Like, I I ask the questions. He he responds and you judge openly. And again, if audience who doesn’t know.

Jon Johnson:

No. No. No. But this is really good. I’m I’m I was made for this.

Jared Orr:

Good.

Jon Johnson:

Jared, I’m gonna go ahead and not move forward with the next round interview, but I’d love to give you some constructive feedback.

Josh Schachter:

Wow. That’s harsh, man, but I like the directness. No. No. No. But

Jared Orr:

To be fair, no one has ever asked me that question in any of the interviews I’ve been in.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jared Orr:

No one has asked me that question.

Jon Johnson:

But here’s the thing. I think you’re on the right path. Like, like, I know that was jokingly. Obviously, I’m not giving I don’t have a job to offer you, but, I really love How passionate you are about your mission. The thing that drives you, you are so good at connecting, the humanness and the humanity that you offer into a role that often is pretty stagnant. Right? So right off the bat, that is a huge, huge sell for you. But 2 things. I think and this is something that I’m extremely passionate about.

Jon Johnson:

I if if you’re coming in as a 1st CSM or ahead of or whatever, I actually don’t care about the process. I don’t wanna hear about the process. What I wanna hear about is the impact that your decisions had on the customer and the business that you’re supporting. Once you get into these, you know, 1st roles and these kind of, like, kinda weird leadership roles where you’re not, like, over people. Sure, you can put a playbook in place. You can implement to tango, but that doesn’t solve a problem. That’s not identifying a customer problem. You said at the beginning of the call that you, feel like you need to get more specific with your resume, And I feel like you gave all of the things that you need to get specific about in that list.

Jon Johnson:

However, you focused on The internal team facing. And if you’re building your team, that’s great. But if that team doesn’t deliver, if that team doesn’t, Identify, like, gaps if it doesn’t identify customer pain or identify problems. It doesn’t matter if you use to tango or turn 0 or what your playbooks look like. Right? So, just to kinda flip that on the head, the next time Josh, jump throws this question on your lap, I’d really focus in on Identifying, like, 3 key pain points that you identified that equaled whatever KPI your Leadership was tracking. Right? So if it’s an OKR model or a v two model or whatever framework you’re using, really tying it into We had, you know, 30% churn quarter over quarter. We had no idea Hey, John,

Josh Schachter:

I have a question for you.

Jon Johnson:

I have a

Josh Schachter:

question for you.

Jon Johnson:

Josh, I’ll just cut me off when I get

Josh Schachter:

Sorry. Sorry. Not sorry for interrupting. So Jared, TLDR, asked Carly for your money back. John, I have a question for

Jon Johnson:

you. Okay.

Josh Schachter:

Why should I hire you for my 1st head of customer success?

Jon Johnson:

Oh, no. It’s like the golden bachelor. Who’s gonna get the rose? Wait. Who’s the bachelor in this? Yeah. Gary. So, I mean, I would start really simply and say, I think a a a power that I have is identifying customer pain, and getting customers to talk through, outcomes, on the tools that they’re using. And I can show you measurable numbers on not only growth, but retention And, customer engagement scores. So I’m a firm believer in using quantitative processes to understand how our customers are using our platforms and How they’re not.

Jon Johnson:

And I’ve been, you know, incredibly blessed and lucky to have the ability to build out a map from actual to ideal. And when you’re coming in as a 1st CSM, it’s important to build out a road map, from where your customers are to where they need to be. And I can give you the steps that I have implemented in the past to bring them to that, that in general will bring higher retention, higher growth, and higher engagement scores for your customers.

Josh Schachter:

I liked it. Yeah. It was better than Jared’s. But here’s the thing. There was There was something that both of you missed in my opinion.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah.

Josh Schachter:

And John, you were getting closer to that, is, metrics. Like, tell me about the NRR. Tell me about the number of customers you supported. Tell me about, like, the overall revenues of the company. Was it a stage The series b, was it tell me, like, the actual numbers somehow. Okay, Jared. I’m hiring this this role for, you know, first customer success manager, head of customer success. Why should I hire you?

Jared Orr:

Okay. I okay.

Josh Schachter:

You’re gonna you’re you’re you’re regretting being on this podcast. I’m sorry, man. But you

Jared Orr:

know what? I just I I hate I hate role playing because I I suck at it. I suck at role playing. I I and I did theater for 7 years. For some reason, when someone says let’s do a role play and it’s all about you, I I turn into I don’t even I can’t even, like, describe. It’s bad. You you guys just We’ll

Josh Schachter:

we’ll put a wig on John and then and and there you go.

Jon Johnson:

You could ask me to prom.

Jared Orr:

I’ll I’ll just pretend that you’re Sean King and, I’m

Josh Schachter:

not too good.

Jon Johnson:

Thing. It’s the 2nd time. No.

Josh Schachter:

No. Okay. So so Jared so Jared, so so so pain point. No. But and by the way, like, I think I think the world of you, and I think the world of you as a customer success manager, I know you Personally. So so this is all constructive. But, but yeah. Like, what are the what are the pain points, like John said, and the solutions to those? Are there any stories of, well, one time I was helping this person and their dog had just died and this and that, and I saved the day, blah blah blah.

Josh Schachter:

System. And then, what are the metrics? Right? Like, what are the numbers? So again, why should I hire you?

Jared Orr:

Yeah. Okay. Well, here here’s one experience that I that I’ve shared throughout these interviewing processes that always seems to get really good, reactions from hiring managers and people that that I’m talking to. When I was at Totango, I got a new batch of clients, and all of them have been with us for a long time. They weren’t, like, brand new. They were just new to me. And I noticed that 1 client, had really low adoption, and their CEO had just given us a 0 NPS. So just recipe for absolute disaster.

Jared Orr:

Right? They also had a renewal in 60 days. So, like, okay. So the 90 day mark is already gone. I I have 2 months to, like, somehow save these guys. So, I went usually, when I get a new client, I go through the, you know, last 6 months of call notes just to see what they’ve been talking about, who they’ve been talking to, the nature of the conversation, things like that. And I noticed that the CEO had not been in contact at all with this company with with Totango, but 2 people had, basically, the 2 champions. So I’m, like, I’m gonna reach out to them and kinda get my way in that way. So I did.

Jared Orr:

They were willing to have a conversation, so I got got a call scheduled and it went really well. I mean, they They wanted Totango to be successful, and I was able to learn that the CEO simply was just very displeased with the lack of adoption and the amount of money they were spending, which is completely understandable. I didn’t even mention the up the upcoming renewal date, but I did say this, like, okay, listen. Here’s what we gotta do. You have an onboarding team that could easily be using Totango. So what we need to do is just build out your onboarding process in Totango. You’ve gotta build that out step by step. So all I need from you It’s a step by step list of what in what a successful onboarding looks like for your team.

Jared Orr:

Luckily, they had it, they sent it to me, and I said, okay. Over the next month, we’re gonna meet every week for 45 minutes to an hour, and we’re gonna build out your onboarding process in Totango. Gonna map out every milestone, we are going to, you know, creates create the whole process, basically. And that’s what we did. We built it out, the onboard team started to adopt, which was great, so So we started building out the renewal process, and their escalation process, and their nurture customer process, and their, NPSC, all of that we started building out in Totango for the next month or 2. During this time, they not only renewed, but they actually ended up, adding more head counts to their to the Totango licenses. I I did ask them, kinda, later on, you know, how the CEO is, you know, port seeing Totango now, and they said, we haven’t heard much from him, but he seems to, be more pleased with the fact that we’re actually using it. I’m like, that’s great.

Jon Johnson:

That’s good. Live studio audience right there.

Josh Schachter:

That’s good. That’s good. No. No. I I I thought that was great, man. I thought it’s great. Now, so so if you take if you abstract extract If you abstract that story, and and if you so why would you be good for this role, right, if Update were hiring? What could you say it’s like, well, I excel in this or I’ve had and this is an example, a story that exemplifies that.

Jon Johnson:

Mhmm. What

Josh Schachter:

how could you frame it to, like, tee yourself up to, like, go into that story? Because I thought that story was great. Like, it’s gripping. It’s memorable. So what would it what what what was it about what you ex what what did you exemplify in that story that you could really kinda show that as a strength, Talk about that as a strength and then and then go straight to that story as an example of that strength.

Jared Orr:

Yeah. Well, very proactive. I I think it’s very hard to succeed in customer success without being proactive, individuals. So that’s number 1. To my ability to, you know, gather data, you know, I went through the last 6 months of call notes, figured out who the main points of contact were, What they were talking about, what the issues were just by the call notes from the last 6 months. And then my ability to, you know, Get a, I don’t know, get get get a meeting scheduled weekly and get them in a in a much better spot within a matter of 2 months. I think that exemplifies my ability to be a forward thinker, and, you know, really work 1 on 1 with customers SMRS to get to the root of their issue and to fix that issue in a very timely manner.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah. Dude, I love that. Actually, I agree with you on those all those points. I like the forward thinking part, and I think, you know, were you to have, you know, an opportunity to kinda go dig into that, I think it’s one of those things where tying it to How you would do it in a new environment. Right? So that was one story at Tatango, but it’s like, now you need to show them that you’re gonna be able to do for them, right, in all of their whatever it is. So I think that that could also lead into a really cool opportunity to ask the founder, to ask Josh, like, what What are some of the biggest problems that you’re facing right now? Like, I know why you’re hiring. I see the job description. But, like, what are the 3 things that you expect from this role, you know, to be to be to be completed, if you were to hire me.

Jon Johnson:

Right? And then you get those, like, really deep data points that you cannot just talk about The high level stuff, but you get it going to be, like, oh, you know what? You have an adoption problem, or you have, you know, whatever that is. It’s like then you can start tying those stories into the actual problems that they have, because you’re not just solving general problems. You’re solving their specific problems that you just don’t know

Jared Orr:

yet. Absolutely.

Josh Schachter:

And and just just one of the the rules of this role play is I ask the question and answer them. Technology. And also, if I were Jared if I were Jared right now, because Jared’s a very smart and sharp guy, and I’d be like, you know, f you guys. Like, I got my crap together. Like, thanks for all this unsolicited advice, guys. This It was not why I came on to your podcast to help you out. But, but, no, Jared. I think, like, if I take what you said, it was like, well, you know, This this is what defines me.

Josh Schachter:

These characteristics define me as a CSM. I am, shoot. Now I’m blanking. I’m having a senior moment. The first thing you said, oh, right, I’m proactive because proactivity matters because the x. I’m data driven because oftentimes x doesn’t happen, and this is why that’s important. And I’m outcome driven. And Yeah.

Josh Schachter:

You know, because because x. And, you know, if if you don’t mind, I could share an example. I was at Tatango, and this happened. We had a 0 MPS, and we turned the whole ship around. And they went to a head count from from 12 people to to 33 people And, you know, increase the ARR by whatever. And here’s how I, you know, could see that playing out in an organization like UpdateAI. Let me ask you, are you struggling with blah blah blah blah blah? I I mean, you have all it already. You’ve you’ve got all the skills already, and and I’m we’re not trying to tear you down here.

Josh Schachter:

That’s all good.

Jon Johnson:

John and I am swooping a looping on it. That’s alright. A little bit. A little bit.

Josh Schachter:

John’s still a little resentful of how I tore down his, his haircut last week.

Jon Johnson:

Well, actually, the barber did that for you. Actually, not just last continually.

Josh Schachter:

Continually. Well, I’m just jealous because I don’t have hair. But in any case, yeah. I mean, Jared, like, you’ve got great things going for you, and you are well spoken, by the way. And I think you actually are a good storyteller. And I remember being on your podcast, and I remember being cast. And I remember being super impressed with your storytelling.

Jon Johnson:

Mhmm.

Josh Schachter:

And in fact, I’ve actually learned a little bit about how I wanted to be a host for my podcast from being on your show. So

Jon Johnson:

Thank you.

Josh Schachter:

Listen, man. I wish you the best, but it’s really not wishful thinking because I know the best is coming your way very soon. The cream rises to the top, and you’re part of that cream?

Jon Johnson:

Oh, man. That was bad.

Josh Schachter:

I don’t know.

Jon Johnson:

I don’t know. But, you

Josh Schachter:

know, Whatever. That was bad.

Jared Orr:

I get what you’re saying, though. I appreciate the the sentiment. That’s great.

Jon Johnson:

Yeah.

Josh Schachter:

Hey, listeners of the BS and CS podcast. We have a cool new thing that we’re Playing around within, the episodes, there’s this program called SpeakPipe, and it allows you to record a message to us, and we’ll play it on the air. So it’ll be in the show notes. And if you have any comment from today’s episode, from last week’s episode, questions you wanna ask to the cohosts. Maybe you wanna scold us for putting Jared in a kind of, you know, unsolicited feedback situation in this episode. Whatever it is, we’d love for you to leave us a little voice memo. We’ll put it on the air. And then most likely, it’ll be Christy that’ll respond to it because we know that Christy, like, size for that stuff.

Josh Schachter:

And, yeah. So check it out in the show notes. John, what do you wanna sign out with? Peace. Deucey.

Jared Orr:

Peace and love.

Jon Johnson:

No. Jared, you know, I I think it goes without saying, Please keep digging through our contacts if there’s anything that we can do for introductions. I’m excited to hear about this, opportunity that’s coming through. And As soon as you hear, please make sure you you update the group. We’d love to kinda celebrate those wins with you as well. So

Jared Orr:

Of course. Will do. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

Jon Johnson:

Awesome. Well, thanks, guys.