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Josh Schachter:
Unchurned is presented by UpdateAI.

Jon Johnson:
And as a CS manager, you’re saying, okay, well, you’ve done x number of meetings, and you’ve done y number of QBRs, and you’ve done all these things. But what what happens when your fucking customer doesn’t show up?

Ryan Seams:
Probably until they’re, I mean, 100 plus employees, They don’t really need a lot of this really heavy touch, QBR, keeping engaged, etcetera. You just need a technical person to unblock them, give them the tools, Make sure they’re doing okay and, you know, keep keep the process rolling. That’s a good point.

Josh Schachter:
How do you just in that environment, how do you avoid just becoming the customer support? Yeah. Because you’re gonna hear from those folks when there’s a problem, right? Otherwise, it’s just like, yeah, cool.

Jon Johnson:
Like, I’m available access.

Ryan Seams:
At a different at different companies can mean completely different things. And, like, on one hand, you have, like, the classical CS person, but you could also have a title that says customer success and you could be extremely technical.

Jon Johnson:
You just said something really, really cool. And I don’t wanna gloss over it. Meet your customers where they’re at.

Josh Schachter:
Hey everybody, Josh here, Founder and CEO of UpdateAI. Welcome to this week’s episode of Unchurned, our CS and BS, but as always more BS than the CS. I’m here today. Christy is sick and you guys can’t see me unless you’re on YouTube, but in quotation marks, she’s sick. She had enough of John and I think she needs a break. And I’ve got John here by my side. John, you wanna say hi?

Jon Johnson:
Yeah. What’s up, guys? John Johnson here. I took last week off, so I feel like Christie’s just like, fine. But, John Johnson, principal customer success manager at UserTesting and just, you know, thrilled to be here all around.

Josh Schachter:
John, do you wanna introduce our guest or should I? Because, like, I

Jon Johnson:
I mean, you know him. We could just, like, elude for, like, another minute or so. Like, what’s your favorite thing about our guest without saying this guest’s name. Oh.

Josh Schachter:
My favorite thing about our guest is

Jon Johnson:
that

Josh Schachter:
He’s been really helpful in my UpdateAI journey. Like, he’s been quite the back channeler for me and, And help give me information and tips on how to use well, he’s got a new job, but previously, his old job, it was very helpful for me. I’m a big fan of his of his old platform. So and he’s like a nice guy. He’s really he’s always he’s got that smirk on his face right now, but it’s a genuine smile. It’s not like a facetious smirk. He’s just like, he’s always very nice and jolly.

Jon Johnson:
I love that. That’s a good answer. With that, Josh. Take it away. Who do who are you talking about?

Josh Schachter:
I wanna introduce everybody to Ryan Seams, in case you weren’t guessing that.

Ryan Seams:
You got it right.

Josh Schachter:
You nailed it. Check’s in the mail. So Ryan is the head of customer success at AssemblyAI. And Ryan is new to that role. So it’s been, what, like a month, maybe 6 weeks, Ryan?

Ryan Seams:
And we are in week 3 right now, so, just getting started. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Schachter:
So you’re

Jon Johnson:
a pro. You fixed it. Cool.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Well, he’s still in, it’s still in Boomerang territory, actually. It’s it’s so new. So, well, Ryan was previously, running customer success. He was a senior director of customer success, and I think there was some

Jon Johnson:
Solution engineering and professional services. Yep.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. You did all the post sales things, at Mixpanel. And I’ve been a Mixpanel user for years years now. My relationship actually with Mixpanel goes pretty far back. I used to blog for them and blah, blah, blah. And, but it’s the type of product where you really need Some white glove service from time to time to set up different types of things in the platform

Jon Johnson:
and very technical. Yeah. We set up things.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah, we set up things. No. I mean, Mixpanel, for those that don’t know, I guess I’m assuming everybody knows. Mixpanel, behavioral analytics, product analytics platform. So I grew up, you know, in my career in tech as a product manager, product owner, And, you know, whether you want to do an onboarding funnel to see who, what your drop off rate is for people to sign up or finish the flow or whether you want to create a cohort waterfall graph that shows tracks, you know, usage by cohorts over time, all those sorts of things. But it can get very technical. And so that’s where Ryan’s team comes in. And the interesting thing is that Ryan’s background, why don’t I just talk for entire Yeah.

Jon Johnson:
I was just gonna say, if you’re talking Just

Ryan Seams:
keep it going. Keep it going.

Jon Johnson:
Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Schachter:
We’ll just keep it going. He comes from a technical background and is actually his 1st role, I believe, I think, you can correct me, it was was in a technical capacity with Mixpanel. And then, you know, next thing you know, flash forward 4 or 5 years, whatever it was. He’s senior director of all those things post sales at Mixpanel as they grew, hockey stick. And now he’s the head of customer success at AssemblyAI. Now when we say head of customer success, right, and we had a little conversation before the episode,

Jon Johnson:
business As we always do. Yes. Are you new? What does that

Josh Schachter:
mean? What does that mean? Because we know there are people out there in the Linkedinosphere here that say head of customer success and it’s head of them and themselves. But there’s also head of customer success, like, you’re the head of a 250 person organization. So where are you in that spectrum, Ryan?

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. Yeah. No worries. So just getting started at assembly, but, the way that we look at things here, we’re still very small. We’re about a 100 person team. So ahead of customer success is just head of the customer success team. I’m also You’re a 100 person organization.

Josh Schachter:
You’re a 100 person organization.

Ryan Seams:
Persons total. So, I mean, we only have, like, 10 people who are even sitting remotely near customer success. And, we have 2 2 CSMs right now. So there’s a lot more scaling and, experimenting to do. But, I’m actually But you’re the head of success.

Josh Schachter:
You are the head of them.

Ryan Seams:
So I’m doing success solutions and support engineering, but Head of customer success is just an easy way to package that up altogether and make it as simple.

Jon Johnson:
I love that.

Josh Schachter:
I like it. Yeah.

Jon Johnson:
Well, okay. So we’re gonna jump into, like, tech and, like, software and customer success and, like, all that bullshit at some point. But number 1, if you’re watching on the YouTubes, which, like, more and more of you are, it’s weird. You wanna see our faces? I guess, it’s it’s fine. But behind mister Ryan seems is, I think every single Starbucks you are here mug I’ve ever seen. How many do you have, and, how much of how how unwilling are you to relocate, that wall of cups behind you.

Josh Schachter:
And which is your favorite?

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. So there’s 98 on the wall behind me.

Jon Johnson:
Oh. 98?

Ryan Seams:
There there’s another, like, 40 in the closet to be clear. There’s there’s overflow. There’s some on the desk. It’s bad.

Jon Johnson:
Tier 2. We got tier 2.

Ryan Seams:
Actually started my career in consulting, and so I collected mugs. When I first started traveling, they were sending me, you know, all over the US for consulting. I started collecting these Starbucks mugs. There were only, 43, I think, in the initial release of the You Are Here series. Michigan would have been part of the initial release as it was a US state or city. By the end of this, though, there’s over, I think, 500 unique mugs, John, now that you can get out in the world. And so Wow. There’s no way that I think anyone has them all because there at any Starbucks anywhere in the world.

Ryan Seams:
And, to wrap that off and title off, the most, you know, interesting ones are the ones where You go to a place where there’s, like, 1 Starbucks in the whole city and you have to go there. So, like, Marrakesh, for example, there’s 1 Starbucks in Marrakesh and you have to go all the way to that Starbucks just to get the specific muck.

Jon Johnson:
Now I’m gonna I’m gonna be a little critical here. I would like to point out that you are collecting the You Are Here v 2 model. This is not the original v one model. Are you familiar with the difference? The wide based versus the

Ryan Seams:
thin base. No. I had to collect the thin base. Yeah. No.

Jon Johnson:
Sort of. Yeah. If you can No. So, So I worked at Starbucks, in Seattle. It was, like, my 1st coffee job. And I when I started traveling, I was, like, oh, these are kinda cool. It wasn’t they column You Are Here Mugs. I forget what they were called.

Jon Johnson:
There’s like another series that came out before this one.

Ryan Seams:
City series or something like that?

Jon Johnson:
Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I got so excited. And I’ll tell you, like, a little bit about my background. I like, people who like me, and I like to put I would like I do a podcast now. I’ve got a newsletter. We do all this kind of stuff.

Jon Johnson:
I want people to see me. Right? So I I had a blog spot, and I would blog. Them aging myself here, like, everything everybody under 35 is, like, lost. But I had a little blog spot, and I actually used to when anytime I would travel, I would send out notes to all of my friends to get me the Starbucks mug and then take a picture with them. It was called mugs with mugs, and I had this whole hashtag, and and it’s super fun. And and I I I tell this story because there’s a point, I swear. I I had a I was in living in California, And I had a friend who’s in Columbia, South Carolina. I was like, I don’t have South Carolina.

Jon Johnson:
You should hey. Like and I would just text people that were going through there, and nobody could find the South Carolina mug. And I don’t know if they’ve changed this, but up until about 3 years ago, South Carolina did not have a, we are you are here mug. And I have been looking for that. I don’t have my collection anymore as I’ve said,

Josh Schachter:
but anybody It’s because John, it’s because they they refused to take the Confederate flag off of it.

Jon Johnson:
They did. That’s probably true. Did you Google it? Is that true?

Josh Schachter:
No. No. That’s just fine.

Jon Johnson:
Okay. No. But that I thought I actually there’s a girl that I know in in Columbia, South Carolina. And every time, you’re like, hey, they got one yet? You got give me that I need it. Give me the give me the cup. Give me the cup.

Josh Schachter:
What was that sound? You made, John?

Jon Johnson:
Just you know what that sound is.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Sounds delicious. For every 10 meetings that you have with somebody for the 1st time, what percentage of them bring up the mug within the 1st 10 seconds?

Ryan Seams:
Oh, it it’s probably, like, a 70% hit rate. I mean, look, people like traveling, coffee Yeah. Collecting, art. One of those things that’s gonna resonate with somebody.

Josh Schachter:
I’m surprised it’s not 9a half out of 10, to be honest with you.

Jon Johnson:
I wanna I wanna, like,

Josh Schachter:
get those, like

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. Usually, the 30% is like where you have like 5 people on the call and 3 of them have already asked and the other 2 are brand new to the conversation. They’re like, should I ask them? Should I talk about this? Yeah. Eventually, they task.

Josh Schachter:
But it it’s so funny. We’re all so familiar with the mugs because I was in consultant too, and that was my gift to myself when I was traveling the world was, like, I’m gonna go buy myself a mug. So I have probably about a dozen of them upstairs and I actually use them. Actually, I don’t have any, like, I kind of still live a bachelor life a little bit. I don’t even have any like water glasses. I just have a dozen where You Are Here Starbucks mugs up in my cabinet.

Jon Johnson:
So I love that. Yeah. Ryan, before we move on from this interesting topic, is there one cup or city that you wish you had that you don’t.

Ryan Seams:
Oh, that I wish I had that I do not today. I don’t know if there’s necessarily, like, one city. I I think of it more like what are the places that I would like to travel that I haven’t been to yet. So, personally, you know, that would be places like, I wanna go to Peru and go to Machu Picchu. I wanna go to New Zealand, do some hiking there as well. I haven’t been there. So I I think of it more like where have I not been than, necessarily, like, I gotta go to this specific city to get a mug.

Jon Johnson:
Yeah. Do you only have mugs from cities that you’ve been to?

Ryan Seams:
Besides 3 of the mugs that were gifted to me by my mother. Yes.

Jon Johnson:
Okay. So it’s kind

Josh Schachter:
of like, is it

Jon Johnson:
on the job map?

Josh Schachter:
John, I want to just keep asking questions of the mugs and I want to look at the analytics of this episode afterwards. I’m just like, what the drop off and see how long we can go just on the mugs for 45 minutes until we have like the last person drop off.

Jon Johnson:
You

Ryan Seams:
know, thank thank thankfully, I’ve at least listened to the podcast a few times, so I was a little prepared for the

Josh Schachter:
So you knew the banter.

Ryan Seams:
It should be nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Jon Johnson:
No. No. Got a way for us to extend this just a little bit. Okay. Ryan, I want you to take a step back and look at the wall.

Ryan Seams:
Take a

Jon Johnson:
step back and look at your wall. I want the be do this with me. Okay. Starting from the left, I want you to count 4 down and I want you to count 7 over. Okay. Okay, grab that mug. Take it off the wall. What city is it?

Ryan Seams:
This is Madrid.

Jon Johnson:
It’s Madrid. Tell me the story about that mug.

Josh Schachter:
Mug too.

Jon Johnson:
I knew it.

Ryan Seams:
You knew it.

Jon Johnson:
When did you get that mug?

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. Yeah. So, my wife and I moved to London for two and a half years with Mixpanel to open their first international office. And during that time, had the pleasure of visiting customers around the world, but also, of course, getting to go on fun little weekend trips from London. And so Madrid was a lovely little weekend trip with my wife before going to Barcelona to visit colleagues and customers.

Jon Johnson:
That’s awesome. I love that.

Josh Schachter:
Like, we could play like, John. Can we just keep doing, like, 1 more of these? No.

Jon Johnson:
No. No.

Ryan Seams:
I could I could tie in something about customer success or my story to each of the mugs too if you want me No,

Jon Johnson:
do it. Done.

Josh Schachter:
Yeah. Do it. Okay. Row 7, column 3.

Jon Johnson:
It’s like we’re playing Plinko over here. Row 7, column 3. No. That’s it. You got it. Josh said, this is what we’re doing. We’re leaning in, guys. Christy is not here to tell us to shut up.

Jon Johnson:
Yeah.

Ryan Seams:
So this one’s gonna be Tennessee. Not the most interesting in terms of,

Jon Johnson:
I believe.

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. I’ve, I’ve been to Tennessee actually twice, both of them with my my family. We went on a trip to Dollywood actually when I was I’m over these years.

Josh Schachter:
We need to let’s go Oh, no, no, no.

Jon Johnson:
This is so good.

Josh Schachter:
Customer but we’re gonna relate 1 to customer success.

Ryan Seams:
Well, that would have led me on my journey to customer success because my family taught me to enjoy traveling, how to have a great personality like this and how to See. He’s a pro. People on podcasts. You know?

Jon Johnson:
I love how you said how to deal with people, not like how to interact with great podcast. No. I’m going to fucking deal with you.

Josh Schachter:
I’ll deal with you.

Jon Johnson:
I’ll deal

Ryan Seams:
with you.

Josh Schachter:
I’ll have some personalities. All right.

Jon Johnson:
At some

Ryan Seams:
point we got to at some point we got to push back a little bit. Right?

Josh Schachter:
All right. John, transition us. You’re good at those.

Jon Johnson:
Okay, Ryan. How are you feeling today?

Ryan Seams:
Feeling good.

Jon Johnson:
Alright. You said you’re 3 Josh, give me a second. Give me some give me some space. You’re 3 weeks into a new role. You’re coming in from a large functional organization that is crushing it in the market, right, into a new role that is kind of in its infancy, not not just learning how to walk, but, like, you’re you’re taking some big strides. Right? You’re coming in with a lot of experience with professional services, with support, things like that. How do you think about what you came from, which is lots of process, lots of function, lots of success stories, lots of things built on success stories into a world that maybe doesn’t have that and is a little bit more nebulous. And then how do you how do you, like, strategically forecast getting to that ideal state?

Josh Schachter:
And sorry, before you answer that, I don’t think we’ve actually introduced what AssemblyAI does.

Ryan Seams:
Right. I mean,

Josh Schachter:
I let’s start there with their work.

Jon Johnson:
But, yeah, can

Josh Schachter:
we can we give that context for people?

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. Yeah. So what AssemblyAI does is it’s a speech to text AI platform. So, essentially, you can integrate our APIs into your product. You can take a conversation like this podcast that we’re recording right now, and you can immediately get things like what’s the summary of the conversation, what were the topics discussed, how are the podcast hosts to the guests that they had and the sentiment Right. Of of those different folks on their on the podcast, all that fun stuff. But essentially, it’s an easy way to turn speech into text so that, of course, you can do whatever you want with that text, down downstream inside your own

Jon Johnson:
I’m I’m

Ryan Seams:
seeing AI, for example, would be using a similar speech to text AI platform to record calls and provide summaries and all that fun stuff.

Josh Schachter:
But wait, so actually you and we’ll get to your question, John. I’ve just

Ryan Seams:
kind of derailed you.

Josh Schachter:
Maybe by design. So you are infrastructural for companies like you could, you don’t power up to that AI, but God knows I’ve sat in on enough of, like, private equity investor conversations where they’ve wanted me to tell them about my experience with AssemblyAI and stuff like that. So you could power a startup like UpdateAI, our underlying transcription. But it sounded like you guys also do you also have a consumer facing or an end user facing, paradigm too? No?

Ryan Seams:
No. We do not. So all, yeah, infrastructure based.

Josh Schachter:
But you can but what but the stuff that you mentioned there, like the the action item detection, the sentiment detection, you can power that infrastructurally as well. So that, like, almost like chat gbt would. Right? I guess.

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. So out of the box with AssemblyAI, there’s certain, basically, audio intelligence features that are built in, like the summary, the transcript, the topics, etcetera. And then with our SDKs and the way that we’ve set up our product. You can basically take the output of the actual podcast, the transcript, and feed that into a l l m and do more advanced analysis. And so, obviously, things like summaries, like a a basic use case or action items. But, you know, we have some customers who are feeding, you know, I don’t know, like a tutor, a transcript of someone helping someone solve a problem, feeding that into the LLM afterwards and actually being like, did they get the question correct? Was that the right answer to the problem? So we make it really easy for you to just do speech to text and then chain that into some LLMs as well if you have

Josh Schachter:
So you don’t compete with the LLMs. And LLM, by the way, for for those folks, large language model, these are the opening eyes of the world, the anthropics of the world. So you’re because you they you could just use your summarization, your action on detection, your sentiment detection, right? Which would supplant somebody going to the LOM for that. But it sounds like that’s not necessarily they’re not at odds, you’re saying?

Ryan Seams:
No. Not at all. So, I mean, again, audio intelligence, there’s certain things outs, you know, from speech to text from a transcript that we’re going to infer that you’re gonna wanna know and that most of our customers are going to use. But We’re also finding more and more, right, that people aren’t just using speech to text in isolation. They’re not just wanting transcripts. They’re wanting to do intelligence on those transcripts or Yeah. Multiple transcripts. Right? Maybe with the same company or the same, person even.

Ryan Seams:
Right? And so, customers that are taking not just that one, hey, here’s the transcript, here’s the summary. They wanna do some more advanced analysis and make it really easy for you to go and and, you know, use as an input to an

Josh Schachter:
Cool. But we’ll talk. We’ll talk. We’ll talk, we’ll talk later in the quarter in the year. All right, John, back to you. You had some question for

Jon Johnson:
I don’t know. I don’t even know. I’m curious.

Josh Schachter:
So if you

Jon Johnson:
get more sales time. I’m gonna I’m gonna pivot. That was stupid. It’s fine. I said a lot of words, and it would have been a one word answer.

Josh Schachter:
John John, you are being for your special. I’m I’m I’m

Jon Johnson:
I know, but I’m already on something else. Okay. We’ll go we’ll go there, and then I I already have, like, 9 more. So what I’m looking for is, I really love these transitions from big companies, lots of process, lots of people into something that’s like, hey. You did that before. Can you do something with for us too. Right? And and maybe that’s something you’re interested in. There’s a hunger there.

Jon Johnson:
Walk me through kind of the process of you’re 3 weeks in. Like, this is so new for you. How do you start building the foundation and what what inputs or outputs are you looking for to to kinda set your tone for what you wanna do long term within this organization?

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. I think it’s a great question. And to be clear, I think if you’re gonna make this transition, you have to enjoy the chaos. You have to enjoy the fact that things are not going to be built. Yes. You’re going to be the one who’s figuring out what are the problems, where do we have the could we make the biggest impact, what should my priorities be? You have to really enjoy that process. Right? And, I think with anyone who’s, you know, looking to make a switch, like, it’s like, what do you like about your current job and what do you don’t like?

Josh Schachter:
And some point. Can I pause you there? Can I pause? This is Josh’s interruption day. That’s such an important point because there are so many people out there, they’re like, oh, yeah, I, I, well, first all, there’s a lot of people out there, unfortunately, now that’ll take any job that comes their way. Right? But there’s a lot of people out there for good reason, but there’s a lot of people out there that are like, oh, I’d love to work in a startup. I’d Get out of the monotony of, of a larger company. But you have to really not only like, like, oh, yeah, sure. I’d be willing to, to, to kind of, it’s okay that it’s spaghetti inside. I can deal with that.

Josh Schachter:
Uh-uh. It’s not that you can deal with that. It’s that you want to embrace that. Like you that that excites you because it is so much crap that you have to to to wade through and make into an order and into a process. And there’s so much excitement that can be behind that and the opportunity. But if you’re not, like, jazzed to do it, you’re just gonna, like, you’re gonna peter out very quickly. So I think that’s really well said, Ryan. Like, you’ve gotta really want to be in that, you know, 1st 100 person company, like, what you’ve just joined.

Ryan Seams:
A 100%. And, obviously, having made the switch Recently, people ask, oh, hey. Why did you make the switch? I mean, at the end of the day, like, I had a list written down. It’s like, what brings me joy about my day Today, and what are the things that I don’t like about my day to day? And at some point, right, during the course of a company scaling and growing, you know, the company maybe doesn’t fit what you like to do day to day anymore. And for me, you know, I was really looking for an opportunity to go somewhere where we were smaller, we can move quickly, we can iterate and try things and see what works and know that, you know, hey, not everything’s gonna work, not everything’s gonna stick, but, like, change is okay and change shouldn’t be scary. We’re doing it in the the best interest of moving forward and building a better team, building a better company, and building something better for our customers. And, I think in terms of the process. Right? Getting started, trying to figure out what should my priorities be, what’s going on.

Ryan Seams:
You know, I haven’t changed jobs in 10 years, so I have, the benefit of having tools like a Gong or an UpdateAI where I can go watch call recordings and understand what our customer is saying. I mean, when I started at mix failure, right, the only way to do that was to join the call and be there awkwardly on side like, hey, my name is Ryan. I’m just shadowing. I’m gonna put myself on mute and say nothing for the rest of this call. That’s weird. Right? Nowadays, you could just start watching calls right away. And so A lot of what I’m doing is watching customer calls, interviewing the current people on the team about what’s going well, where can we improve, what’s slowing down, and then just getting kind of a whole wide plethora of viewpoints around, you know, the go to market organization, the engineering organization, the research organization. What should those priorities be and how how the interaction’s been with the team.

Ryan Seams:
But, you know, I do have the the pleasure of of having a little bit of a head start having, you know, the 10 person team that’s already in place and, they have been doing a lot of great things. But a lot of what I’m doing is trying to figure out what are those, you know, friction points and areas that we really need to focus in on to to scale with to the next level.

Jon Johnson:
That’s great. Okay. So one of the things that I’m, you know, I think, I’m really interested in it, specifically with this AI kinda world that we’re growing into, right, is, like, customer success. Not necessarily, like, AI is replacing customer success, but how are you thinking about bringing CSMs on as strategic partners for utilizing AI insights? Right? For, like, for really coaching people. It it’s I guess, I don’t wanna answer the question for you, but, like, do you look at usage? Do you look at out like, what are the outcomes that you’re driving? And what are the like, how are you tying value, to the individuals? Right? I mean, we have to we have to prove our value every day now. Right? So how do you think about that from, you know, this this kinda new landscape of of of modeling. Josh, I know Josh just hired his 1st head of CS as well. So I guess this this might be a kind of interesting conversation for you 2 to have.

Jon Johnson:
I’m sure you’re doing it internally with much more expletives in your group chat. But I guess guess, that’s kind of a question for the group. It’s, like, how do you think about this when these whole these tools are built to be force multipliers?

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. I mean, there’s obviously all the classic data you can look at around, hey, you know, how many queries are being made to my API, how many questions being asked. How many answers do we get? All that stuff. Right? And then, you know, I think you’d be remiss to just, like, dismiss that and, like, move on. But I think, you know, those are things we’re we’re actively looking at. Right? And and really, that’s more around, like, is there a healthy customer here. Right? Do we have consumption of the model? Are they utilizing at the right rate? Are they utilizing the right features, right, or the right models within the the the set that we have? I think those things are all important, but, ultimately, what’s really different, I think, when you think about AI, right, is, like, the result of that model is going to be used downstream inside someone else’s product that you may have no access Yes. Or inference into, is this thing a success or not? And Right.

Ryan Seams:
What does that mean in terms of, you know, the way that you work with customers is that you have to be really close to your customers and talking to them to really understand what they’re doing with the model, what use case they’re ultimately integrating it for, the feedback that they’re getting from their users, from their engineers, from their own, internal customer success teams even. Right? Is it working or not? And so, I think it’s very different in the fact that You can have all this data and it might look great, and somebody’s consumption is going through the roof, and you have a conversation with them, and they’re, like, I didn’t even know we were integrated there. I’m, like, why are we spending so much money with you? And so it’s really critical that you have, you know, the right channels, the right cadence, the right communication with your customers, to really figure out, you know, is this a success or not? It’s not so easy. Just look at the data like you might do in a classical CS motion.

Josh Schachter:
It’s a really good point because we have a lot of vendors And process or subprocessors that we work with that, you know, help us with our calendaring integration and and our transcription service. Right? And There is a tendency like to, I guess my question is how do you just, in that environment, how do you avoid just becoming the customer support? Yeah. Because you’re gonna hear from those folks when there’s a problem. Right? Otherwise, it’s just like, yeah, cool. Like, my transcription is just fine. Like, I’ll talk to you at renewal.

Ryan Seams:
I I mean, I think that’s pretty common. Right? If you’re thinking about the average CS team in that space, like, that’s probably what you’re gonna see. I think if you’re thinking about the teams that are maybe innovative or doing something different. Right? I mean, first things first. Like, what are your customers like to communicate? You’re working in AI, you’re probably working with developers, engineers, product managers. You should be in Slack. That’s the one place they’re gonna actually talk to you and communicate with you and be transparent with you. So step 1, let’s get the right people in the right medium for communication and have a conversation there.

Ryan Seams:
You’re not going to have probably the best, you know, feedback or engagement if you’re like, hey, let’s set up a quarterly business review, and let’s do it on Zoom. Like, That’s just not really what, you know, your audience is interested in, ultimately. So step 1, figure out who your customer is and where they wanna talk to you. And then, like, let’s, you know, start to build in some automation and some strategy from there around not just being support, but being proactive and, you know, applying, you know, changes in your product to to the use cases that they’ve talked to you about in the past. Yeah.

Jon Johnson:
You just said something really, really cool, and I don’t want to gloss over it. Meet your customers where they’re at. You said if you’re working with developers, getting on a Zoom call may not be the best process. Sending them an email might not be the best thing. Right? That probably terrifies a lot of people that spend their days with their nose in code. I do think that this is a maturity inflection point for our industry right now. Right? It goes to show, like, all of our tools are built to track email, and to track Gong, and to track Chorus, and, like, all of these things. And and as a CS manager, you’re saying, okay.

Jon Johnson:
Well, you’ve done x number of meetings, and you’ve done y number of QBRs and you’ve done all these things. But what what happens when your fucking customer doesn’t show up? We’re dealing this with right now, user testing. Like, we Yep. It’s so hard for us to get all of the right people on a call together because they’re engineers, they’re developers, they’re UX researchers that are just not the right they’re just not used to it, right? So then how do we how do we also absorb like the process chains with this culture? If we’re gonna be leaning more into engineers, how do we build the the durable process to to track what we’re doing as a CSM to prove value? Because I’ll I’ll be honest, it kinda scares me if we’re talking with engineers because they don’t know how to tie ROI back to you know what I mean? Like, it’s just not in the skill set. It’s something we can teach them, but but it’s one of those things where there’s that puts up a lot of roadblocks. Right? So if you’re meeting where they’re at, then it maybe isn’t in one of the traditional spaces. I love Slack groups. I’ve got some Slack channels with my customers.

Jon Johnson:
But, like, I then go into Tango and I log had a Slack conversation, you know, and I have it’s like a manual process. Like, there is a lot of kind of this and moments when you have to go outside of these 2 things that we’re designing to do.

Josh Schachter:
Can we just all agree that community Is not the answer. That one of these, like, platforms, it’s like, Oh, I’m going to spin up these blog forms and threads like it’s 1989. Like, You know,

Ryan Seams:
like, I

Josh Schachter:
hate that. There’s this trend right now. This is me just evangelizing vitriol. There’s this there’s this trend right now in these forums. Like, no. Nobody wants to go to some like GitHub looking documentation forum that like a community contributor with a little badge type something in blah, blah, blah. Like, I get it if you’re a giant company, you have to, but I don’t think that’s the answer. And, Ryan, when you were at Mixpanel, This is about 6 months ago to a year ago.

Josh Schachter:
You were I don’t know if it was your thing, but you were instrumental in helping to institute, a new Slack community, a community for Mixpanel users on Slack, like a separate Slack instance. Now I, as somebody who, you know, is a renegade to the rules, I just continue to email you and all the people that I know and love at Nextpanel because that’s I’m an old school email guy, but, how did that email, how did that Slack community go because you’re meeting people where presumably they were at.

Ryan Seams:
Yep. Yep. So the Slack community, geez, we would have launched A little over 2 years ago now, we grew to about 8,000 users in there. I don’t know the exact number of, like, you know, active users. Slack defines them differently based on I don’t know. If they have crazy active user metrics for billing, it’s like somebody had their mouse cursor in the workspace for 15 seconds seconds and read 2 messages as an active user. But in any case, the community was really a space you look hey, look. I I talked about meeting customers where they’re at.

Ryan Seams:
Like, your top enterprise customers, you should have a joint Slack channel with them, and you could communicate there, and you can, you know, give updates, whatever. But you can’t take that experience and scale it To any customer. Right? You can’t have every free customer in their own Slack channel, and you certainly don’t want them all and maybe, like, unofficial Slack channel associated with, you know, your your company. And so I think the big trend that I’m seeing in community, right, if they’re talking, you know, meet the customers where they’re at is give them a space So users can actually just chat and connect with each other and hopefully answer each other’s questions. And that’s what we did in Mixpanel. We we launched the Slack community. We created, you know, some guidelines. We actually modeled it a lot after DBT.

Ryan Seams:
I would say they’re probably, like, one of the innovators in this space What’s DBT? You know. DBT. It’s a data modeling platform. So basically, DBT, if you have a bunch of data in your data warehouse, your analytics engineers wanna keep track of where what table should be used for what metric and what query should represent an active user. You can use dbt to basically keep track and catalog all of that data. And then, of course, once you have a catalog of it, it’s really easy downstream for you to, like, send it to, I don’t know, Looker to Mixpanel, to customer success platform, etcetera.

Jon Johnson:
Did you find though that

Josh Schachter:
it was successful? Like, because I find that I am a member of some of these communities. And for the most part, the ones that I see there’s more activity in, like, we talked about it for UpdateAI, let’s say, should we do a community? But it’s like, no, because the ones that are most successful are where they’re more technical. And so you get these folks that can really like, you know, like the growth marketing lead gen hacker communities and stuff like that, or like give me the SQL query to do this, right, which fits really well to your use case for Mixpanel. What did you what did you find in terms of the engagement of people?

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. So, we found that it was actually quite successful to the point where, like, our support engineers are spending an outsized amount of time on, answering questions in the community, which is which is great, though. You know, you you’d rather have more demand than less demand. Right? And so, from there, it actually became kind of a matter of how do we scale this? And, I mean, what we’re seeing now, at least, is the trend. Right? It’s like, you know, hey, if you’re gonna have a community, you could also have an AI bot in there that’s gonna go and say, hey, you can ask the bot first. I don’t know. What should I do to use this API call? And then the bot gives you at least an an initial answer. Right? And then, oh, okay.

Ryan Seams:
If I still have questions, I I can go and actually just ask the community to get help from, you know, somebody else that’s done it before and that’s an expert. So that’s also something we’ve done at Mixpanel at the end is, basically, had an AI bot who could field kind of the l one initial questions, get the user to ask the right question, and then, you know, the community helping each other with some of the more, like, You

Josh Schachter:
built the bot into the community?

Ryan Seams:
We built it in the community. I mean, we bought it off the shelf. We didn’t build it ourselves. We’ve got it. Purchased it.

Josh Schachter:
That’s that’s that’s smart.

Jon Johnson:
I wanna talk about, like, trends. Like, that’s kind of one of the things we’ve been talking about. I know it’s kind of a yawn, but, like, you’ve been in customer success for a while. You’ve done it successfully. You then you took on PS, and then you took on these other things. Right? Like, what do you see outside of AI or inside of AI, whatever. What do you see kind of coming next for CS? Like, what is what is an evolution that you’re looking forward to this year within the industry that you may either implement or, lead, you know, the market on.

Ryan Seams:
I mean, I think there’s gonna be obviously, like, all the buzzwords that you’re gonna hear Efficiency, scalability, digital. You know, those could go on and on and on, more with less. I I think the reality is, I mean, look, there’s all that which is more, like, from the boardroom perspective, what’s the p and l look like, etcetera. I think if you really go talk to the people on your team who are doing the work with the customers, the amount of things in CS that people are still doing that’s extremely repetitive is massive. And the biggest opportunity for us as a, you know, profession or whatever you wanna call it to to move CS forward is, How do we automate those repetitive tasks with whether it’s workflows or AI, automate the repetitive tasks so that people can actually spend their time on the customers and the issues that actually matter. And we do a lot less of the, like, let’s be proactive and check a box because my boss told me that’s gonna be the most, you know

Jon Johnson:
some playbook that’s up to you somewhere. Yeah.

Ryan Seams:
And instead, you could be like, hey. Like, what customers actually need my help right now on a problem that’s going to lead to retention or expansion. And so it’s not like, I don’t know, everything’s a fire drill and Right. We’re doing all these other things too. It’s just like, how can I focus my time on what customer and what matters right now? And if we can eliminate a lot of these repetitive tasks, you know, it would go a long way towards that. Now I don’t think AI is gonna solve that tomorrow. There’s still some, you know, documentation writing that people have to do and some culture you have to build within your team that, like, the number one repetitive task. Question, put it back, put it on the Internet, put it in the doc, put it somewhere so that you don’t get asked the same thing over

Josh Schachter:
and over. So what’s the number one you’re you’re 3 weeks into this, but what’s the number 1 task at this point that you would like to automate and save time save seconds off of an AssemblyAI.

Ryan Seams:
I think for us right now, it’s it’s actually in in the presales process, and It’s all about how do we show the customer not just, hey, here’s where we are. We’re simply ad, like, how do we bring the magic to the developer of, like, oh, my gosh, how to use the API. I it was so easy. I sent it one request, and I got everything I needed back to just go and build my product. And That’s what you wanna be as an API product. Right? If your infrastructure should be so easy to send a request in, get a response, and go on building and and just doing whatever you were doing before that. Just go live the rest of your day like you were before. If you have a problem there, right, or you don’t understand how to use it, you don’t understand the use case, any of those things that are gonna slow down that magic moment for the developer, which is really what’s gonna, you know, allow the product to to go and take off.

Ryan Seams:
And so, you know, I think depending on the segment, right, those things are different. But for example, I I, you know, I I’m only 3 weeks in, but I was surprised to learn that, you know, we only published our 1st SDK 6 months ago. You know how hard it is for a developer to integrate an API without an SDK? That’s they expect SDKs are table stakes, right, in 2024. And so, you know, how do we just keep building, not even the SDK, but all these, you know, use cases and examples, etcetera, that build on those SDKs. The developer can just go in, read the docs, figure out for their use case, what’s the request, what do I need to put in. Great. And now I can keep going on with with building. Right? And that’s ultimately what they wanna go

Jon Johnson:
yeah. We have a little jargon alert that we play here, and SDK stands for software development kit. For those of you that are unaware, it is something that, engineers, basically, like, Lego building plans. Right? So you you you just need to know how to build things with what you’ve been given. Right? So companies like yours will give an SDK to engineers so that they can build within the framework to achieve their goals with what they have purchased. That’s it.

Josh Schachter:
That’s all

Jon Johnson:
I had.

Ryan Seams:
You you could you could think of changing hundreds or thousands of lines of code to like 10 or less.

Jon Johnson:
Yes, exactly. Okay. So Josh, tried to interrupt you with a question about what’s the one thing that is repetitive. I’m interested in that as well, but also, skill sets. Right? So you ideally, at some point, your team is gonna grow. You’re gonna hire more people. How are you looking at

Ryan Seams:
that,

Jon Johnson:
not hiring to fill the repetitive things that you’re gonna answer. But then also, like, what do you how do you identify what your team needs, not just as a body, but as skill, to kinda come in and build this ideal utopia that you have for your company.

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. I think one thing that I always like to say about CS, and if you ever interviewed with me, you would probably hear me say this, but I think,

Jon Johnson:
you know, I’m available after this.

Ryan Seams:
At a different at different companies can mean completely different things. And, like, on one hand, you have, like, the classical CS person who’s, like, doing renewals and upsells, they’re running QBRs, they’re doing monthly check ins, they own the relationship and the customer. Right? That’s like one side of CS. But you could also have a title that says customer success, and you could be extremely technical, be doing API level integrations, yep. Be teaching a developer how to put code inside of an application, etcetera. Right? And I think of those, frankly, that’s like 2 very distinct skill sets. You can find unicorns who do both, but let’s be honest, those are the people that are gonna get promoted a bunch and 10 times over and probably, like, companies at some point. Because it’s really hard to be able to do all of that commercial relationship building type of activities.

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. But also be extremely technical and in the weeds and, you know, coaching a developer through, some process of of implementing. And so I think, you know, to your question, we were saying, like, skill sets, etcetera. I think you need to figure out, you know, which of those things is more valuable to your customer, apply that lens per segment and then go, you know, send your resources towards that. And what I mean by that, so I send, like, an example, right, is If you think about the enterprise and you think about a very complex organization that’s trying to adopt product analytics or even, you know, AssemblyAI, right, You’re gonna have many, many people who are involved in that process. You’re gonna have developers. You’re gonna have that developer’s manager. You’re gonna have, like, the head of the department.

Ryan Seams:
You’re gonna have, maybe the CTO or the CTO or maybe the chief AI officer’s, a title I’ve been heard, you know, throwing around. But You’re gonna have to be very multilayered in the way that you communicate with that customer. And that commercial relationship skill set gonna be really important for the upper end of that where you have those key executive relationships and you talk about ROI and you talk about why, you know, you spend, you know, $1,000,000 or whatever it happens to be with the tool and why they actually get value out of that. Right? But you’re also gonna need that really technical person to go help that person integrate the product regularly and keep it refreshed and keep it up to date. And so, you know, in the enterprise, you might need both. If you’re thinking about, you know, commercial, you’re thinking about a startup who’s adopting your your platform. All of those roles I mentioned might be 1 person.

Jon Johnson:
Right.

Ryan Seams:
And they write and really probably only just need the technical thing done, and they don’t care about any of the rest of that stuff. And so you’re really causing friction if you’re trying to do all this commercial relationship y, etcetera type activities when all they really want is to just get the tech to work and get value out of it. And so, you know, depending on your segment and what your customers actually need, figure out those skill sets, and, you know, you can map those to roles. Obviously, you could try to do everything all in one and, you see how it goes. But, you know, often it’s, like, you know, per segment, per per, geography, etcetera. How do we wanna go to go to market and deploy those resources?

Jon Johnson:
That’s great. How are you thinking about segments right now? That’s that’s that’s something that kinda keeps you you talk a lot about obviously, everybody talked about segmentation in this, but who owns segmentation, like, in your mind, in in your ideal state?

Ryan Seams:
You mean, like, if it’s, like, the operations team or the CS team?

Jon Johnson:
Yeah.

Ryan Seams:
I I would say the one key lesson I’ve learned about segmentation is your whole company should use the same segmentation. If you’re using a different segmentation How

Jon Johnson:
many people actually follow that though. Let me be honest.

Ryan Seams:
Exactly. So I’m just gonna say that should be lesson 1 is, like, if you as a CS team are not using the same segmentation as your sales team, your go to market team, your CEO, whatever. That’s your step one. Just do the same one. And you may have to make compromises, and it might not be perfect, but It’s going to help you speak the same language and go to market the same way when you think about all those different resources and skill sets involved with the customer.

Jon Johnson:
That’s the title of

Ryan Seams:
this. Yeah.

Jon Johnson:
That’s the title of this business.

Ryan Seams:
Secondly, at least the way that I think about segmentation, the other piece there, is really about, you know, what is the complexity of that organization, and what are they going to need from you from a skill set perspective? And to be honest for me, you know, if you’re If you’re catering towards, you know, venture backed startups with highly skilled technical people, probably until they’re, I mean, 100 plus employees, they don’t really need a lot of this really heavy touch, QVR, keeping engaged, etcetera. You just need a technical person to unblock them, give them the tools, make sure they’re doing okay, and, you know, keep keep the process rolling. Some good point. You can always set up, you know, coverage models and segmentation models where if you need whatever the commercial skill set or the technical skill set. You could have a pool of resources that you bring in, and it’ll be a lot more efficient than trying to, like, just throw tons and tons of the different skill sets at segments that that don’t actually need them ultimately to be successful.

Josh Schachter:
How are you, How are you thinking about expanding and upselling your accounts at AssemblyAI? And the reason I ask that is because, you know, we have a transcription provider, as I told you, And there are times where I’ve been in casual conversation with them and I’ve been telling them about something that we’re gonna do. We’re gonna put, you know, this new use case. And then it’s like a, oh yeah. Oh, by the way, you know, you know you could do that with us. And it’s like, we never even knew that. Or, and there’s times where and I like these guys, by the way there’s times where, they will introduce, like, the next released version of their model. Like, you know, 4.0 is gonna be so much better than 3.0 and it’s in beta now, or now it’s in GA and here’s the pricing for it. And I feel like there’s a lot of just missed opportunity.

Josh Schachter:
I mean, like, well, if 4 point zero is so much better, like run some of my data through it and show me the difference.

Jon Johnson:
Yeah.

Josh Schachter:
You know, we’re like like, what are you thinking about as far as ways to to be top of mind from a proactive expansion perspective.

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. It’s really funny you mentioned that specifically. I think one thing with AI that’s very different from b to b SaaS or other, you know, just products where you have engineers. It’s like, the input’s gonna run through a model and you’re gonna get an output. And it’s not always deterministic or clear, right, why that input led to that output. Put and I think in AI, that’s what really makes it hard on, like, the customer success side to show, like, we are listening to your feedback, we are making progress, We are pushing new features. We are making it better because you don’t you don’t know. Ultimately, it’s it’s not like a product release, but it’s like, woah, we have this brand new feature.

Ryan Seams:
You can go click around here, and voila, here’s the value that you you asked for 6 months ago, 12 months ago, whatever it is. Right. In AI, it’s it’s a little more nuanced. Right? And so I think to your to your point there, right, showing versus telling, I think, is is critical. But in order to do that, right, you have to know that customer and their use case why they bought the product in the 1st place and who the different players are. Otherwise, you’re you’re gonna have no chance at actually being, you know, contextual and relevant in in how you show them.

Jon Johnson:
Yeah.

Ryan Seams:
Anyone can tell. Right? Anyone can go write a blog post and, you know, push a bunch of ads, talk a lot on social media. But showing that it really is better, showing that it really is more valuable to your use case, doesn’t require a bit of that that human creativity. And ultimately, I mean, I think that lives firmly with customer success to do. 100%.

Jon Johnson:
That’s awesome. That’s great. Thank you so much, Ryan. That’s that’s

Ryan Seams:
that

Jon Johnson:
was awesome. The last question that I have really, is is there anything that you wanna tell Josh directly that you’ve been afraid to over the years of friendship. Now’s the time. You’ve got them. If you can’t do anything about it, I’ll make sure they don’t edit it out. We’ll use it. I’ll give you a clip and you can put on TikTok.

Josh Schachter:
Open range.

Ryan Seams:
I mean, it’s it’s funny. Right? My answer would have been different, a pre pre epic panel versus now post at AssemblyAI. You know, I’ve gone from, running customer success for him to trying to, turn them into a prospect and run them through a sales process. So I think it is very different, but, I don’t think I have anything, like, particularly bad. I mean, Joe look, Josh has a bunch for the customer success community.

Jon Johnson:
He’s incredible. He is.

Ryan Seams:
I don’t I don’t think there’s anything bad to to say. Oh, I’m glad.

Jon Johnson:
I got one one bad thing. I’m gonna say one bad thing. You could say more than one. No. But I there’s there’s only one that that won’t be edited out. Almost on every single podcast, Josh says, I don’t know much about the CS industry. I’m just bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about.

Jon Johnson:
Go talk to these experts. And I have learned more from this guy in conversations over what what do we have, rib eye at your place a year and a half ago in New York and Brisket. And brisket, and the people that he has introduced me to. And I think he undervalues himself in this industry in a way No. That breaks brings my heart a little bit.

Josh Schachter:
No. No. It’s no. It’s true. Like, I don’t. I wish that I had sat in the seat of a CSM or their shoes, but I have not. And I don’t

Jon Johnson:
think you should have.

Josh Schachter:
I can give you so much academic stuff and so many of the learnings from you guys. And every time I’m on an episode with somebody on this program, I do learn. And yet it’s so different having not actually sat in that seat myself.

Jon Johnson:
But the value that I’ll say is, like, those of us that have been in the seat for, like, 12 or 14 years or however it was long, like, we are the kings and queens of, like, acceptance. Like, oh, that won’t work for me because. Right? And we just self exclude ourself because of the experience. And when you do bring that academic academic, like, leadership role and and, Ryan, this is kind of getting to where you’re at too. Like, you’ve got a ton of experience. There’s gonna be a lot of things that worked before that aren’t gonna work now, and you’re gonna try things that the people on your team would be like, we tried that. I’m not gonna do that. And, like, part of being a leader is, like, okay.

Jon Johnson:
You tried it, but we didn’t have this. Right? And I think that’s something, Josh, that you do really really well is saying, you may have tried it, but you tried it doing X or Y, now we’re going to do it with Z. So It

Josh Schachter:
makes me uncomfortable when you’re so nice to me because then No,

Jon Johnson:
it’s fine. I’m going to send you uncomfortable pictures after we get done with this. So those

Josh Schachter:
those those picks that go in the private library.

Jon Johnson:
Yeah. But,

Josh Schachter:
Ryan, last question for you and then we’ll jump. Why did you join other than the 500 ks base and 2% points of the top? $2,000,000,000. Yeah. Like, why did you join? I wish.

Jon Johnson:
Yeah. Well, if you were

Josh Schachter:
the sales leader, then, you know, you could always switch functions. Why did you join AssemblyAI from a company perspective? I know these guys are growing, right, And there’s a lot of, a lot of excitement in this industry and with that particular company, but also from the role perspective too. Like, what The head of CS at a growing a 100 person company, what’s your 5 year goal other than don’t die? Everybody get that reference, I hope.

Jon Johnson:
Don’t die.

Ryan Seams:
Yeah. Yeah. Look, I mean, for me, look, I I really enjoy building. And so the idea that, like, you’re in a growing company, a growing space. There’s gonna be lots of opportunity to build new processes, teams, customer feedback loops, whatever you wanna call it. Right? And so one is to go back to building versus not to say that you’re not building at a 500 person company, but, you know, you’re building at a different pace and at a different speed. Right? And so That’s number 1. Number 2, I wanted to be in a space that is constantly evolving and changing.

Ryan Seams:
When I joined Mixpanel, we were creating the category of product analytics. There’s a lot of education. There’s a lot of change. Everything’s different. The competition matters. The marketing matters. There’s just a lot going on. Like, again, I like the chaos.

Ryan Seams:
Right? And so this idea of being in a space where you’re defining the category and you’re really learning and growing with it, I think is a a huge plus. And then, you know, last for me, I’ve been at Mixpanel for almost A decade. Right? And so the culture is really important to me. And, obviously, I only been here 3 weeks. But during the interview process, I, I I got all the the feels and the vibes that I did when I joined NixPilot 10 years ago. And so at the end of the day, like, I wanna go run the whole journey all over again. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Seams:
Where I end? I don’t know. But I’d love to leave where we have an awesome CS team that’s very well respected, and we’ve done something really cool in the the category that And then for me, that that’s exciting, and it was a couldn’t couldn’t pass up the opportunity.

Jon Johnson:
Awesome. That it chaos is a growth engine. It’s not a red flag for you, and that’s that’s so cool. I love hearing that. Like, I’m I’m grateful that the that you exist.

Josh Schachter:
Is there anything you wanna plug?

Jon Johnson:
Oh, yeah. I I was asked, like, is there anything you wanna plug? Do you do do you wanna, like, I don’t know. What? What’s up? Everything.

Josh Schachter:
Well, if

Ryan Seams:
you’re looking for

Josh Schachter:
speed, I see.

Jon Johnson:
How you doing?

Ryan Seams:
No. No. Look, if you’re interested in learning more, you have specific questions, whatever, I’m available on LinkedIn. I almost always reply And say, yes, I’ll do a 1 to 1. If this podcast gets gets enough demands, I know there’s too many of those. I will have something bad to say about Josh finally. But, If you are interested, reach out, connect with me on LinkedIn and more than happy to discuss.

Jon Johnson:
I love it. Well, thank you so much for your time. Josh, take us home.

Josh Schachter:
Thank you for your time. Bye, everybody.